Brood and a half - but which way up?

[Amari]

Over 40+ years of beekeeping I have settled on brood and half for an average colony (OK, I know there are drawbacks). Usual practice has been to place the shallow above the BB, then in autumn feed syrup into this shallow and nadir the shallow a month or so later. In spring the shallow is invariably empty so then it is returned above the BB.
A recent post on the forum states that bees usually extend downwards (I'm not sure that I realised this). So, in spring maybe I could leave the shallow below the BB?
Grateful for the thoughts and experience of B+1/2 aficionados.

 

[enrico]

I always leave the shallow below. Makes for easier inspections. I rarely inspect the shallow as queen cells are on the bottom of the bb frames. I think you may be in for some stick for not knowing they extend downwards after 40 years he he
E

 

[Finman]

.
Change to double brood. IT is easier to arrange frames between boxes.. If it seems during the summer, that the Queen do not usein two boxes, you may put excluder between the broods..

But bees use the lowest box to store pollen, if it has space. Then they do not need to store in the honey boxes.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Association apiary run brood and a half with shallows under. Why would you feed the bees and get them to cap the stores in a shallow on top then put it under so they have to uncap it all and move it into the brood box? It seems to be giving the bees an awful lot of extra work. Or have I misunderstood what you are doing?

 

[Finman]

). So, in spring maybe I could leave the shallow below the BB?
:

Idea is that bees start brood rearing on the top of the hive, because it is warmest place.

If you put empty box over the brood, heat (36C) escapes up and often bees must kill part of brood to keep the heat in the brood ball.

Heat is minor factor in Sring build up. I have seen it when I heat hives with terrarium heater.

.

 

[REDWOOD]

I have never seen the point of brood & a half when you can have 14 x 12 or double brood boxes. Or have I missed something ?


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[Tremyfro]

I only did brood and half once...that was enough...such a faff, a lot of unnecessary lifting and you can't swop the frames around. So I planned on moving to all 14x12 frames. I already had one jumbo poly and it was so much easier. Now I have Beehaus....and it is even easier...the brood area can expand and contract as appropriate to the time of year.

 

[Vortex]

90% of the time I run with the shallow above the deep .. the bee don't care which way they are..
In the spring they start laying in the shallow which is generally where the cluster is..
As to swarm control .. it's easier to stand the shallow on it's edge to check for QC than the deep.. and they're just as likely to pull QC below the shallow as below the deep..
I only reverse them if they decide they only want to use the shallow and then only for 3-4 weeks..

 

[For want of a better word]

I put a super of drawn comb on top of the single brood box without a qe, mostly because bees will fill supers with honey, and these super frames can be moved up to be robbed to sell later.... and then be returned for refilling!!

If the bees fill it with brood it stays as the brood + 1/2.

Much more easy to tip a super than a full brood or a back breaking 14 x 12 !

Now experimenting with the OSB Rose Hive system

You could always try Warre hives?


Yeghes da

 

[Little John]

a back breaking 14 x 12 !

Then don't lift it ! That's the beauty of BIG frame sizes - you never need to lift a box full of frames.

Or - for those who actually like lifting boxes, try an 8-over-8 configuration - either in custom boxes or in dummied-down standard deeps. You know, it's not compulsory to copy what others do.
LJ

 

[Amari]

Association apiary run brood and a half with shallows under. Why would you feed the bees and get them to cap the stores in a shallow on top then put it under so they have to uncap it all and move it into the brood box? It seems to be giving the bees an awful lot of extra work. Or have I misunderstood what you are doing?

Point taken. So presumably you feed into the BB?

 

[Amari]

I have never seen the point of brood & a half when you can have 14 x 12 or double brood boxes. Or have I missed something ?
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In my limited experience of 14x12 I don't like the big heavy frames and bigger area to search for the queen. A full BB is so heavy. Actually I use plastic frames (which only come in standard size) with unwired foundation. I just might cease to be a creature of habit and try more double BB - but my bees rarely seem that vigorous.

 

[Amari]

I always leave the shallow below. Makes for easier inspections. I rarely inspect the shallow as queen cells are on the bottom of the bb frames. I think you may be in for some stick for not knowing they extend downwards after 40 years he he
E

I'm a slow learner

 

[For want of a better word]

Then don't lift it ! That's the beauty of BIG frame sizes - you never need to lift a box full of frames.

Or - for those who actually like lifting boxes, try an 8-over-8 configuration - either in custom boxes or in dummied-down standard deeps. You know, it's not compulsory to copy what others do.
LJ

Have experimented with 14 x 12.... not convinced.
In my own limited experience the old 10 frame WBC broods were brilliant... and hives run on double brood were quite good producers of honey.... back in those days in Dorking Surrey... with Ranmoor Common awash with heather and summers that lasted from April to October.
Come to think of it even the girls wore shorted dresses back then!

Yeghes da

 

[drex]

I ran brood and half for a couple of years and did not like it. Mainly because you cannot swap frames between boxes. For last few years have run double brood, and more than happy with it. My mongrels fill one and a half boxes with brood at their peak.
Was once asked by a friend to find an elusive queen for him. He did not tell me he ran 14x12. A big frame to search and I found them unwieldy. Will stick with double.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Point taken. So presumably you feed into the BB?

I run 14x12s. Feed on after supers off...obviously
I always have honey that is uncapped in those supers so those go back under. The bees move the honey up to the brood box and it becomes part of their winter stores. I imagine those supers will be empty within a week of me putting them under but I leave them there over winter. It keeps the bees comfortably away from the floor

 

[Charley]

I'm with enrico. Have done brood and half for a couple of years, always with super under. Also found they don't tend to do much in the way of queen cups in that bottom box.

 

[Swarm]

Double brood, it's easier to arrange/move frames and my swienty boxes hold ten frames. I converted some old wooden boxes to top bee space and plan on dummying these to the same dimensions. They could be reduced further as LJ suggests if the colony doesn't require that brood space and eight over eight sounds like a nice arrangement.
After removing honey supers, my bees always seem to gather and store more than enough and don't require feeding, I failed to get them to take thymolised syrup in Autumn.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Double brood.......... and eight over eight sounds like a nice arrangement.

I'm trying a double Paynes nuc with the feeders removed this year.

 

[Millet]

Association apiary run brood and a half with shallows under. Why would you feed the bees and get them to cap the stores in a shallow on top then put it under so they have to uncap it all and move it into the brood box? It seems to be giving the bees an awful lot of extra work. Or have I misunderstood what you are doing?

You have me confused Erica which is not hard to do.. lol , from what i have read over the past couple of years is you and several other members Nadir a super come autumn time after feeding, please explain a bit better as that is what i have done for the past two winters from your advice and others..