Brick wall on queen rearing

[Ian123]

Yes especially as I only raise from F1s. With 20 hives, a few nucs, and not looking to increase, is it money well spent to invest in an II breeder queen though and have all your colony headed by queens from the same mother?

I’d say yes without a doubt…..I use 2 breeders, breed from one for a season then swap over.

 

[Poly Hive]

I believe in well seperated sites.

PH

 

[jeff33]

I believe in well seperated sites.

PH

Do you mean using a breeder queen and have her daughters mated across different separated sites or something else PH?

 

[elainemary]

I think your brick in the wall is very common. I’ve reared from plenty of local bee’s and consistency is always the issue, whilst you can judge queens earlier it’s not really until there filling a brood box you can truly get an idea. Trying to tear decent queens from a mongrel population is very hit and miss and in my experience often disappointing! Hence why the vast majority of commercial types will rear from line or pure race bees. You can’t compete with the constancy.

From experience Ian, how many generations from a pure bred race eg Carniolan do you see consistency, before they ‘revert’ back to similar stock as your local bees? Or doesn’t this happen?

 

[jeff33]

From experience Ian, how many generations from a pure bred race eg Carniolan do you see consistency, before they ‘revert’ back to similar stock as your local bees? Or doesn’t this happen?

It does happen. You get really good F1s and it starts going downhill from F2s. I guess the advantage of working with 2 breeders like Ian is that F1s from 1 breeding queen will provide the pure race drone that will hopefully mate with virgins from the other breeder. I imagine that unless you are swapping breeders every 2 years (is getting a new unrelated one in) your inbreeding ratio will also increase from F2s onwards?

 

[Ian123]

From experience Ian, how many generations from a pure bred race eg Carniolan do you see consistency, before they ‘revert’ back to similar stock as your local bees? Or doesn’t this happen?

Hi…Pretty much as Jeff says, I get some good f2, but once there’s a couple of open matings there local mixed more than the original breeder. For me I’ve always enjoyed rearing queens so the goal is only f1 type in the hives, anything after that is ear marked for breaking up or use as a cell raiser/nucs .That’s how I deal with them. Obviously there’s some decent benefits in low swarming in particular with buckfasts and large productive good tempered hives. They probably would not be my bee of choice up a barren hillside/remote areas, but that’s not my location.
Jeff I really don’t think in most the UK inbreeding would be an issue, in fact I’d like the problem!!! You could realistically fix it rather easily and then get the matings you wanted. As you say 1 years queens provide the next years drones, that’s my way of trying to influence things.