Breeds of bees

[susan2016]

Why do we insist on getting bees that originated from other countries i.e. Carnolians when in England, surely black bees are in an evolutionary sense better suited to climate and in temperament?

 

[greatbritishhoney]

That's a whole can of worms you've opened there susan!

 

[tonybloke]

shirley black bees?

 

[Winker]

Carnolians

Beneficial

Considered to be gentle and non-aggressive
Can be kept in populated areas.
Sense of orientation considered better than the Italian honey bee race
Less drifting of bees from one hive to a neighboring hive
When compared to the Italian race, they are not as prone to rob honey
Able to overwinter in smaller numbers of winter bees; honey stores are conserved.
Able to quickly adapt to changes in the environment
Better for areas with long winters
Rhythm of brood production very steep. Brood rearing is reduced when available forage decreases
Low use of propolis
Resistant to brood diseases
For areas with strong spring nectar flow and early pollination
Forage earlier in the morning and later in the evening, and on cool, wet days.
Workers live up to 12% longer than other breeds



Not beneficial

More prone to swarming if overcrowded
Low ability to thrive in hot summer weather
Strength of broodnest more dependent on availability of pollen
Unless marked the dark queen is difficult to find

 

[Suzi Q]

Carnolians

Beneficial

Considered to be gentle and non-aggressive
Can be kept in populated areas.
Sense of orientation considered better than the Italian honey bee race
Less drifting of bees from one hive to a neighboring hive
When compared to the Italian race, they are not as prone to rob honey
Able to overwinter in smaller numbers of winter bees; honey stores are conserved.
Able to quickly adapt to changes in the environment
Better for areas with long winters
Rhythm of brood production very steep. Brood rearing is reduced when available forage decreases
Low use of propolis
Resistant to brood diseases
For areas with strong spring nectar flow and early pollination
Forage earlier in the morning and later in the evening, and on cool, wet days.
Workers live up to 12% longer than other breeds



Not beneficial

More prone to swarming if overcrowded
Low ability to thrive in hot summer weather
Strength of broodnest more dependent on availability of pollen
Unless marked the dark queen is difficult to find

If the 'carnolian' race of bee is bred in this country, by a bee breeder for a number of years cannot they be considered locally bred? Does a carnolian have to be imported? From your post they definately seem to be a desirable queen!

 

[xgeordie]

Why do we insist on getting bees that originated from other countries i.e. Carnolians when in England, surely black bees are in an evolutionary sense better suited to climate and in temperament?

It is debatable if we have pure British Blacks - they were wiped out by Acarine. Brother Adam thought they were bad tempered and not very productive - so bred the Buckfast which many keepers favour.

 

[For want of a better word]

My Carniolian colonies are much as described above.... but the first crosses can turn into bitches from hell... pinging chasing, etc,.. often getting in my hair, even when not really being in close proximity to the hives.
The worst two are now banished to the most isolated out apiary until a re-queening with Buckie Bees next spring !

Strange that the one lot that are showing a more yellowish tint are pleasant ... crossed with NZs?

 

[Norton]

Put your tin hats on and prepare for the barrage!

 

[oliver90owner]

Why do we insist

Perhaps a poor choice of phrase.

We don't. Some think they are better. A great number think they are more convenient. Some make a living at doing it; they try to hoodwink any beek, or potential beek, into thinking theirs are better than all the rest.

Personally, I have never insisted at all. Never bought-in a queen. Doubtless mine will be crosses with some of them, and not all are as good with one trait or another - or even several traits. Those traits that I don't want are lost from my gene pool (and others are imported from the local stocks, whatever they are).

Whatever some say re feisty queens - the genes came from somewhere and will be around somewhere else. In fact they probably came with imported queens!!

I rear a few queens and replace some of the 'naughty' ones, or the non-performers, or the less prolific egg-layers - or whatever - and go again (or just carry on , rather), rearing from a choice, of stock, that I make. I am content with that.

There was trouble this last season with 'all and sundry' attempting to do A/Ss too early in the season and running into mating problems in many parts of the Country. Yes, I had to split one colony early to avoid them swarming while I was away, but I waited until nearly June before I split for a batch of fresh queens and the weather was favourable for them to mate. So there is another reason for imports - the suppliers 'must have' early queens or they would go out of business.


I could go on, but the reasons are nearly all of the ilk 'the grass is always greener....' and the underlying reasons are availability and controlled breeding of traits - some of which, many beeks can do little about. There is no perfect bee; there is always a compromise somewhere; the advertised traits are always the better ones, not the downsides...etc, etc.

RAB

 

[mbc]

It is debatable if we have pure British Blacks - they were wiped out by Acarine. Brother Adam thought they were bad tempered and not very productive - so bred the Buckfast which many keepers favour.

Put your tin hats on and prepare for the barrage!

ignorant trolling

wish that well meaning, medling monk had stayed in Mittelbiberach

 

[Skyhook]

Why do we insist on getting bees that originated from other countries i.e. Carnolians when in England, surely black bees are in an evolutionary sense better suited to climate and in temperament?

Climate maybe, but what do you mean better suited for temperament? Better suited for who? When IoW disease struck, people were already importing Italians for their productivity and gentle temperaments.

If the 'carnolian' race of bee is bred in this country, by a bee breeder for a number of years cannot they be considered locally bred? Does a carnolian have to be imported? From your post they definately seem to be a desirable queen!

The important thing in breeding is the genes. If I buy an Alsatian from a local breeder, it's still an Alsatian.

My Carniolian colonies are much as described above.... but the first crosses can turn into bitches from hell... pinging chasing, etc,.. often getting in my hair, even when not really being in close proximity to the hives.
The worst two are now banished to the most isolated out apiary until a re-queening with Buckie Bees next spring !

This seems to be a problem with any crosses. In fact it's one of the biggest complaints people make about Buckfasts, is their badly behaved daughters

Strange that the one lot that are showing a more yellowish tint are pleasant ... crossed with NZs?

AAAAARRRGGHHH! Not that again! There is no such race as NZ!!! Yellow indicates Italian, a lot of which are produced in NZ- as are a lot of Carniolans.

 

[Hivemaker.]

In fact it's one of the biggest complaints people make about Buckfasts, is their badly behaved daughters

I very rarely seem to get that problem.

 

[Headnavigator]

I very rarely seem to get that problem.

Do you something differently, or is this as a result of the breeding you've been doing for some time?

 

[Skyhook]

I very rarely seem to get that problem.

Do you have enough that the drones in your area are predominantly Buckfast?

 

[Hivemaker.]

Do you have enough that the drones in your area are predominantly Buckfast?

Yes,and of course if Buckfast mates with Buckfast,you get Buckfast

 

[Skyhook]

Yes,and of course if Buckfast mates with Buckfast,you get Buckfast

You're doing a RAB now, aren't you You know perfectly well I was referring to crosses between strains, as was the original post.

 

[Hivemaker.]

You're doing a RAB now, aren't you You know perfectly well I was referring to crosses between strains, as was the original post.

No i am not doing a RAB,whatever that is..lol,i do crosses between strains, and rarely get any problems.

 

[The Cumbrian]

The important thing in breeding is the genes. If I buy an Alsatian from a local breeder, it's still an Alsatian.

This is true but if the Alsatian had to live in the way a bee does don't you feel different areas would develop slightly different "Alsatians" to suit their conditions?

After all that is basically how the Alsatian came to be and why it is slightly different to the Malinois.

 

[Andy Duff]

Carnolians

Beneficial

Considered to be gentle and non-aggressive
Can be kept in populated areas.
Sense of orientation considered better than the Italian honey bee race
Less drifting of bees from one hive to a neighboring hive
When compared to the Italian race, they are not as prone to rob honey
Able to overwinter in smaller numbers of winter bees; honey stores are conserved.
Able to quickly adapt to changes in the environment
Better for areas with long winters
Rhythm of brood production very steep. Brood rearing is reduced when available forage decreases
Low use of propolis
Resistant to brood diseases
For areas with strong spring nectar flow and early pollination
Forage earlier in the morning and later in the evening, and on cool, wet days.
Workers live up to 12% longer than other breeds



Not beneficial

More prone to swarming if overcrowded
Low ability to thrive in hot summer weather
Strength of broodnest more dependent on availability of pollen
Unless marked the dark queen is difficult to find

I love em.

 

[susbees]

It is debatable if we have pure British Blacks - they were wiped out by Acarine. Brother Adam thought they were bad tempered and not very productive - so bred the Buckfast which many keepers favour.

Wrong. A marketing ploy by the said Brother to sell his bees. Tin hats still on I expect.