Black Bees

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Such delightful inconsistency

Can't accuse you of that - only time we seem to see you 'contribute' is when there's trolling to be done.
Consistently

 

[Swarm]

I had a swarm move into one of my bait hives last year with an unmarked queen. They are black. They are also very docile. I could probably handle them without a beesuite. They are extremely prolific and have now (24th April) filled a commercial brood-box with lots of capped brood still to hatch.
I intend to split them tommorrow - weather permitting. Today it was piddling down with rain and they were still out foraging as if it was perfectly normal. What are these bees? They are quite different to my other hives (Buckfast). They seem quite happy in the rain. Could these be our native black bee adapted to our climate? The hive is in Leicestrshire. Does anyone know of a population of Black Bees in the Midlands?

Nice for you if they are. A bit of sun and mine will fly in temps of barely five degrees and not phased at all by rain. Mine don't have chalk brood and last inspection I thought they were a bit runny until I realised the smoke was drifting across so I moved the smoker and then back to normal, sitting there quietly on the comb. They make lovely wax and superb, snow white cappings.
Beautiful bees and plenty of people discovering they are, which is nice.

 

[birdsandbees]

Nice for you if they are. A bit of sun and mine will fly in temps of barely five degrees and not phased at all by rain. Mine don't have chalk brood and last inspection I thought they were a bit runny until I realised the smoke was drifting across so I moved the smoker and then back to normal, sitting there quietly on the comb. They make lovely wax and superb, snow white cappings.
Beautiful bees and plenty of people discovering they are, which is nice.

and this is the kind of review I was speaking of, not here say or people thinking their angry cross breeds are AMM and telling everyone that AMM are horrid

 

[Beefriendly]

people thinking their angry cross breeds are AMM and telling everyone that AMM are horrid

Amm are not horrid in the slightest, good bees to work with.
A balanced point of view will also confirm that no other bee's cappings come close, like dulux one coat brilliant white. Just not enough of them per hive for my personal liking.
Other strains also fly at 5C and in the rain, not just Amm's. Runny is a difficult definition as someone told me his bees were not runny but thought my Buckfast were dead on the comb....difficult comparative one that. To me the Amm's I have had were runny in comparison to my Buckfast. It's a description similar to "I have a large colony"...it need s a better definition.
Who knows where a bit of selection will take Amm's. I'm too old to wait around for that to happen. I'll leave that to you young buck's with plenty more years ahead of you. That is why I use strains/hybrids that have already had a good 100 years selection for the traits I want.

 

[Quis Custodiet]

and this is the kind of review I was speaking of, not here say or people thinking their angry cross breeds are AMM and telling everyone that AMM are horrid

Bees with the above characteristics are very common in Ireland, they are found on the cusp of Buckfast breeding areas. They are indeed delightful bees, they are not AMM and their characteristics are not typical of AMM. When they start breeding among themselves the docility and vigour unfortunately disappears.

 

[birdsandbees]

Bees with the above characteristics are very common in Ireland, they are found on the cusp of Buckfast breeding areas. They are indeed delightful bees, they are not AMM and their characteristics are not typical of AMM. When they start breeding among themselves the docility and vigour unfortunately disappears.

interesting? I have a couple of queens on order from NI, I was told by the breeder that DNA testing showed genetic purity in the high nineties percentage wise. must be a lot of AMM genes in the Buckfast near his apiaries!

 

[Hivemaker.]

Who knows where a bit of selection will take Amm's. I'm too old to wait around for that to happen.

An interesting project, your never too old to start.

 

[Quis Custodiet]

interesting? I have a couple of queens on order from NI, I was told by the breeder that DNA testing showed genetic purity in the high nineties percentage wise. must be a lot of AMM genes in the Buckfast near his apiaries!

We wish you every success with your proposed purchase. DNA testing can be an excellent method, in fact it is the best method to identify breeding. One thing I cannot understand is why DNA results from the continent differed so much from results of testing by some students in the south of Ireland.

 

[Beefriendly]

An interesting project, your never too old to start.

I also don't have the inclination nor spare time to start a breeding project with a bee strain I don't intend to keep any longer.

 

[birdsandbees]

We wish you every success with your proposed purchase. DNA testing can be an excellent method, in fact it is the best method to identify breeding. One thing I cannot understand is why DNA results from the continent differed so much from results of testing by some students in the south of Ireland.

who knows? but with the yellow gene being dominant surely any cross with stripey Drones would be very evident in the offspring.

each to their own I say but I'm not being put off until I've given it a good go!

 

[Beefriendly]

but with the yellow gene being dominant surely any cross with stripey Drones would be very evident in the offspring.

What yellow gene, in what?

 

[Swarm]

interesting? I have a couple of queens on order from NI, I was told by the breeder that DNA testing showed genetic purity in the high nineties percentage wise. must be a lot of AMM genes in the Buckfast near his apiaries!

You're wasting your time birdsandbees, some people are not willing to accept the facts, you find them wherever Black Bees are mentioned

Best of luck with your queens, do let us know how their colonies turn out.

 

[Quis Custodiet]

who knows? but with the yellow gene being dominant surely any cross with stripey Drones would be very evident in the offspring.

each to their own I say but I'm not being put off until I've given it a good go!

The black gene is dominant and while F1 and F2 crosses between AMM and Buckfast will certainly show a great deal of yellow, F3 will usually be quite black. Not only will they be black, but they will retain many of the Buckfast characteristics, such as docility, good honey production, vigor, steadiness on the comb. After F3 they start to become aggressive, but usually retain their ability to collect good harvests. When one hears of AMM bees occupying double brood boxes, brood and a half, commercials, being very steady and docile and producing large harvests etc, they are likely to be the above cross. You are free and must feel free to keep any type of bee you choose and we wish you success, just be aware.

 

[Beefriendly]

some people are not willing to accept the facts, you find them wherever Black Bees are mentioned .

Happy to accept any facts Steve, but not blatant propaganda and lies.

 

[Beefriendly]

The black gene is dominant and while F1 and F2 crosses between AMM and Buckfast will certainly show a great deal of yellow,.

You must be using some of the Buckfast lines with a high proportion of Italian for the yellow. The ones I use have predominantly tan colored teguments.
But, like yours they are back to black within a couple of generations. Unfortunately due to the nature of my local mongrels they don't retain their docility in this region of the country.

 

[Swarm]

You're wasting your time birdsandbees, some people are not willing to accept the facts, you find them wherever Black Bees are mentioned

Best of luck with your queens, do let us know how their colonies turn out.

See what I mean?

 

[Beefriendly]

You're wasting your time birdsandbees, some people are not willing to accept the facts, you find them wherever Black Bees are mentioned

Best of luck with your queens, do let us know how their colonies turn out.

See what I mean?

Yes you are now quoting your own previous post as proof that people are not willing to accept facts.....very weird indeed.

 

[For want of a better word]

The black gene is dominant and while F1 and F2 crosses between AMM and Buckfast will certainly show a great deal of yellow, F3 will usually be quite black. Not only will they be black, but they will retain many of the Buckfast characteristics, such as docility, good honey production, vigor, steadiness on the comb. After F3 they start to become aggressive, but usually retain their ability to collect good harvests. When one hears of AMM bees occupying double brood boxes, brood and a half, commercials, being very steady and docile and producing large harvests etc, they are likely to be the above cross just be aware.

HOGWASH.... the genetic traits have been integrated into the mongrelised so called "Buckfasts... (should be called something else) The aggressive gene that surfaces possibly came in from wompoopoo bees of the C lineage.
Unlikely to be Amm if filling a double BB.


Yeghes da

 

[Quis Custodiet]

HOGWASH.... ....................

Unlikely to be Amm if filling a double BB.


Yeghes da

Absolutely correct, that is the point I have been making, AMM bees will not fill large broodboxes or double broodboxes. Any bee that does have the capacity to do so is not AMM, despite what dealers and breeders would have us believe. Reading Cooper will clarify this.

 

[DanBee]

Unlikely to be Amm if filling a double BB.

Beowulf Cooper stated "occupy 14 BS frames when unconstrained" so you may wish to check your sources. 14 National brood frames sounds like double brood to me.