BIBBA talk on Ley Lines

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Ian123 

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I remember many years ago sailing on a round patrol from Lowestoft to the Dutch coast (for afternoon tea) and back. halfway over a flock of racing pigeons decided to take a rest on our flying bridge, when we got a few miles from the Dutch coast, most had flown off towards the Netherlands but a half dozen stayed sheltering, tucked behind the weather guard. from where they were, all they could see was grey walls and some sky, from my station at the chart table, I could see them on the flying bridge as there was a small eye level window which was at deck level where they were. I mentioned this built in compass thing to my commander who said 'OK, let's test this - let's box the compass!' so for the next fifteen minutes or so we slowly described a pirrouette pointing our nose at each compass position, at first, the pigeons got very agitated, but then settled down and just kept shuffling around - always pointing towards the Durch coast. when we finally set sail again for Blighty, one by one, the pigeons took off in the direction of Holland....apart from one which stayed on board all the way back to Lowestoft whe (quite wisely) it decided that to start the long slog back to Holland was the most attractive option
Having been to Lowestoft I can sympathise with the pigeon.
 

frankenstine 

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the problem with science is that devising an experiminet thats free of bias and has usefull accuracy is hard especally when you hae no idea how things are working. once you know how the system your testing works its easy
 

Beebe 

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Did anyone watch the video? I got twenty minutes in and fell asleep.
 

aj180949 

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The problem with that after-the-fact approach is that dowsing sticks reflect information that the user already knows. If you are testing for swarm sites using places you already know swarms have landed, your mind will, I suspect, subconsciously make your hands twitch the rods on those locations.
Subconscious awareness is a real possibility and has to be considered. When the swarm season comes (September) and I identify a location where a swarm has landed, a few days later I will ask my wife to find the spot giving her only very vague pointer, say within 10 m or so. The sticks seem to show points that are very sharply defined, to within a meter or less. She will have no prior knowledge. I will post the result whichever way it comes.

I was not trying to prove the energy lines theory, I was trying to prove it false and so far have failed.

As for the honey crop, you are correct but I still enjoy the ride :).
 

Anthony Appleyard 

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...First, I tried dowsing sticks - coat hangers and biro tubes. I could see the sticks showing something at some places, repeatedly and reliably. Then I asked my wife to try without telling her where and what happens. Funny thing, for her the sticks were moving at the very same places...
I once saw on television that:- There was a man who could dowse for water. With a metal foil hood over his head, he still could dowse for water. But with a metal foil hood over his head and shoulders, he could not dowse for water. There was a suspicion that the thoracic enlargement of his spinal cord could resonate to and thus detect microwaves naturally emitted by the ground.
 

pargyle 

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Did anyone watch the video? I got twenty minutes in and fell asleep.
Yes I watched it ... to be honest, you probably would not have learned anything more than has been written on here and in Dave Cushman's website. I read John Harding's book some years ago (which started Roger off on his quest) and like Roger I found it very poorly written, in need of a good editor and in a style that was extremely difficult to read - I gave my copy away although I took some interest in the ideas he had written about.

Roger was at pains to point out that his hypothesis was based solely on his own observations and that there is no scientific explanation for the phenomena.

So.. nothing new there and it comes down to do you believe or are you a sceptic or not sure ? Pays yer money and takes yer choice.

I've sufficient evidence of my own to be convinced and there appear to be enough other people who are also convinced for there to be some basis for believing that the bees are influenced by something that can be detectable by some people - what that is ? Who knows ... ? Like Roger I'm reluctant to put a name on it as the sceptics mix up the phenomena that I've seen with the hocus pocus and charlatans who seek to profit from some mystic aspects they attribute to dowsing.

The good news is that it costs very little to make a set of rods (or you can buy a pair of my steel cored, copper coated, divining rods with hand turned yew handles) and try for yourself - if it works for you and improves your beekeeping then that's fine. If it doesn't ... what's it cost - less than a jar of honey - cheap by beekeeping kit standards.
 

viridens 

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Does anyone else remember the Tomorrow's World feature about ley lines?
I'm going back to the 70's here, so my recall is not perfect.

In one programme they used a small 'black box' to mark ley lines across a field and even across a pond, which could then be found and followed by a dowser. On a later programme, when they had found that these lines faded after time, they revealed that their box just contained a light source and a slot and not much else. They speculated that the ancients may have used lights or mirrors whatever in the same way to create lines for navigation or setting out construction sites. I don't think they ventured a guess about the nature or energy source of the more permanent ley lines in the landscape. There is a clip of Clive Anderson trying dowsing here (4 min clip).
 
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aj180949 

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Yes I watched it ...
I agree with you 100%. I read JH, I read RP, I tried to prove that they are wrong, I failed miserably. It does not mean that they are right but what a hell, why not to try what they recommend. Nothing to lose. I tried and I am of the opinion that it works for me very well. And to those skeptical - good on you, good luck.

I am yet to see RP's video, it is not online yet and it was in the middle of the night here (2AM actually). We shall see.

It seems silly to me to assume that all we know (and all this 'science' knows) is all there is. There is more.

I do not trust all this 'science'. Some seems OK but some says that I should put a stinking rug across my mouth and weld myself in my home to survive.
 

Repwoc 

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I can only test places where swarms have settled. If I test places they did not, it proves nothing either way, regardless of the test result. Please consider this.
You need to do more objective testing with other people holding the sticks and at many places where there have been swarms and have not been swarms (to the best of your knowledge). Obviously the people holding the sticks must not know where the swarms were or preferably even that swarms are involved. Only then will you get any reliable data on which to do statistical analysis.
 

Boston Bees 

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I do not trust all this 'science'. Some seems OK but some says that I should put a stinking rug across my mouth and weld myself in my home to survive.
Hello Donald! Good to have you back on social media after the Twitter and FB bans.
 

BitterleyBee 

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Science explains all the phenomena that have been mentioned, including birds' homing and migration. No need to invent imaginary things unless you believe in ghosts or fairies.
well, I happen to believe in both, or rather I just know what I know from experience rather than belief.
 

madasafish 

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I believe in nothing without scientific proof ( I refer specifically to beekeeping and not religions or political opinions - to avoid any doubt and subsequent arguments):)

So I tend not to believe statements by any politician (!) and most beekeepers.
 

Finman 

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As for the honey crop, in the absence of a multi-year randomised trial that's just confirmation bias I am afraid. If you had put half your hives on "bad" energy locations, and half on "good", and there had been a noticable difference in crops over several years, now THAT would be worth talking about.
T
If the beekeeper does not understand, where the honey crop comes from, he will not get answer from good energy.

Honey crop is not random on landscapes. You must know the bee plants and you must evaluate, how many hectates plant area is.

Boston , before you make the research plan about honey crop, you should know something about honey pastures. Almost first you should know, how many other beehives are allready fotaging on that pasture area.

I think that let the leylines be, and find something better to do tonyour hives.
 
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paulandrews 

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For what its worth and I am a skeptic!! I was throwing away an old lawn spreader when I spotted the support frame was made of 2*12 inch "L" shapes! off they came. I tried it around our garden holding the rods tight and I could locate our water pipes easily! Bonkers or what.
 

madasafish 

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For what its worth and I am a skeptic!! I was throwing away an old lawn spreader when I spotted the support frame was made of 2*12 inch "L" shapes! off they came. I tried it around our garden holding the rods tight and I could locate our water pipes easily! Bonkers or what.
If you knew they were your water pipes - as opposed to a neighbours- then you KNEW when to react when you passed over them..
:devilish:
 

pargyle 

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For what its worth and I am a skeptic!! I was throwing away an old lawn spreader when I spotted the support frame was made of 2*12 inch "L" shapes! off they came. I tried it around our garden holding the rods tight and I could locate our water pipes easily! Bonkers or what.
If it was anything like my lawn spreader it was probably more use as dowsing rods ... it either delivered enough weed and feed to kill everything in the soil or nothing at all ...after two uses the thing seized up completely...tip fodder ...
 

Erichalfbee 

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I don't suppose any one out there would be interested in buying a bomb detector? I used to know where you could get some really reliable ones
They train dogs to do that these days then give them a doggie VC when they get shot or blown up. 😢
 
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