BIBBA talk on Ley Lines

[pargyle]

If you believe in this leyline rubbish, you are equally likely to believe the earth's flat or pigs can fly.

Each to their own ... you don't have to believe put perhaps you can explain how it is that birds, insects and some mammals manage to find their way across huge distances across the globe without the sophisticated equipment we have at our disposal ... how do they find their way. Why do DCA's appear in the same locations (regardless of changing landmars) for at least 200 years by observation.

If there are not some hidden lines in the earth's crust that determine these journeys how do these creatures navigate ...

Your dismissal as rubbish is as unbelievable as those of us who have experienced the phenomena - albeit without explanation.... there are things still that we perceive that lack a scientific explanation and that's a fact - not rubbish.

 

[Antipodes]

Each to their own ... you don't have to believe put perhaps you can explain how it is that birds, insects and some mammals manage to find their way across huge distances across the globe without the sophisticated equipment we have at our disposal ... how do they find their way. Why do DCA's appear in the same locations (regardless of changing landmars) for at least 200 years by observation.

If there are not some hidden lines in the earth's crust that determine these journeys how do these creatures navigate ...

Your dismissal as rubbish is as unbelievable as those of us who have experienced the phenomena - albeit without explanation.... there are things still that we perceive that lack a scientific explanation and that's a fact - not rubbish.

https://www.birdwatchingdaily.com/news/science/how-homing-pigeons-find-their-way-home/Homing pigeons use a variety of methods. What you notice when you release a pigeon from a site away from the loft is that they circle around before finally heading home. They use magnetic fields of the earth and also visual clues like trees, hills and the sun. Generally, the more times you take a pigeon to the same place to fly home, the faster it eventually makes it home. They circle fewer and fewer times if you release them from the same site repeatedly. If you read the linked article you will see that they use a variety of means to navigate.

 

[user 20297]

..... apart from the fact that Roger has added to it in his own inimitable style I really can't see why anyone is complaining.

.........maybe because they are beekeepers...being grumpy seems to come with the job description for many.

 

[pargyle]

https://www.birdwatchingdaily.com/news/science/how-homing-pigeons-find-their-way-home/Homing pigeons use a variety of methods. What you notice when you release a pigeon from a site away from the loft is that they circle around before finally heading home. They use magnetic fields of the earth and also visual clues like trees, hills and the sun. Generally, the more times you take a pigeon to the same place to fly home, the faster it eventually makes it home. They circle fewer and fewer times if you release them from the same site repeatedly. If you read the linked article you will see that they use a variety of means to navigate.

I rest my case ....

 

[gmonag]

Also, Google "The Quantum Robin"

(Thats a sentence I never thought I would write!)

 

[Repwoc]

The Quantum Robin

Yes - there was a TV programme about it a few years ago - part of a series on quantum mechanics by Prof Brian Cox I think. And I found this article interesting:
https://www.physicscentral.com/explore/action/pia-entanglement.cfm

 

[user 819]

The biro's and coat hangers worked for me finding an unknown water source, gently dug down and found a blue mdpe water pipe.
I have lines or magnetic lines in doors as well and outdoors, where my cats lay the coat hangers cross.
Don't think Mrs.hemo will be happy with a hive under the dining room table.

 

[IndiBee]

Dowsers have been employed to search out positions for sinking boreholes for extracting water. Also the oil industry had used them, so plenty of trusting parties to rely on dowsing as a good means to an end.

Personally, I necver had any clue as to whether ‘I could dowse’ until about ten years ago, when I tried bent coat hanger wire suspended through plastic pen barrels. I was thinking it worked (where I knew a drain ran) so tried it (very fairly) slowly walking down a hospital corridor, knowing that there was likely drains underneath somewhere along it. The wires simply went mad as I passed along at one point. Looking up at the doors on either side was the lightbulb moment that meant “yes!”. The doors either side were for the ladies and gents toilets. That was the simple test for proving dowsing ability for me.

I’ve never used anything other than pieces of bent coathanger wire in plastic pen barrels, since, as that certainly works for me. I have no reason to believe that bees are not more clever than me at finding ley lines - in fact I fully expect they are - they possibly experience wiggly antennae whenever the cross them, for all I know.

But continually posting, as above - particularly for a new member - who appears to have one aim on the forum - needs curbing.

My father was a religious man and very anti-hocus pocus (I know, the irony!), BUT he tried the pen and coat hanger and swore it was not a hoax.
Science can explain everything - but only once it has been discovered how to prove it - till then it is just unproven.

 

[Newbeeneil]

I have lines or magnetic lines in doors as well and outdoors, where my cats lay the coat hangers cross.

That's interesting, IIRC Roger's dogs don't like lying on lines of energy.

 

[aj180949]

If you believe in this leyline rubbish, you are equally likely to believe the earth's flat or pigs can fly.

I read John Harding's writing on the subject of energy lines etc a few years ago. It sounded definitely fishy, partially due to his writing style. A year later I came across RP's articles. Sounded more sensible but still fishy, talking about some mysterious undetectable phenomena. I decided to prove his theory false. You falsify a theory that says something definite by showing an example where it fails.
First, I tried dowsing sticks - coat hangers and biro tubes. I could see the sticks showing something at some places, repeatedly and reliably. Then I asked my wife to try without telling her where and what happens. Funny thing, for her the sticks were moving at the very same places.
This proves nothing in relation to bees, but I am a local swarm collector. I started tracing each and every place where a swarm hang on a tree or landed on the ground. For the last 3 years I tested 50 places or more. Regrettably, I am yet to find even one place where my sticks would not indicate at least two of these 'energy lines or whatever' crossing.
I have no idea what the sticks show but 100% hit rate is nothing to be contemptuous of.
Now all my hives are on a spots with 'lines crossing' and this year I have a problem what to do with 140+ kg of honey.
Robmort, you may not believe in lay lines but do not tell me that I did not have 100% hit rate and the huge pile of honey in my garage does not exist.
If science does not explain something that can be objectively detected, whatever the detection method is, it is science's fault. One day an explanation will come.
Science is as often blind or wrong as it is not. Once bloodletting was a scientifically proven curative practice, until it stopped to be. And common sense clearly was showing that earth is flat (how could see surface not be flat, for heaven's sake) until it was proven otherwise. Same may happen to these magic lines, maybe even in your life time. Scepticism is god but openmindedness is even better.

 

[madasafish]

My hives appear to occasionally produce large amounts of honey.
I don't find any leylines in my garden.

What am I doing wrong?

 

[robmort]

Science explains all the phenomena that have been mentioned, including birds' homing and migration. No need to invent imaginary things unless you believe in ghosts or fairies.

 

[DaveG23]

This proves nothing in relation to bees, but I am a local swarm collector. I started tracing each and every place where a swarm hang on a tree or landed on the ground. For the last 3 years I tested 50 places or more. Regrettably, I am yet to find even one place where my sticks would not indicate at least two of these 'energy lines or whatever' crossing.
I have no idea what the sticks show but 100% hit rate is nothing to be contemptuous of.

Sounds like a nice harvest, good luck to you and your bees. Keep doing what works for you.

How do you test for the places where swarms have settled without having existing knowledge of the location that might be a subconscious influence? Thats something that also struck me when reading RPs page about the topic.

 

[pargyle]

Science explains all the phenomena that have been mentioned, including birds' homing and migration. No need to invent imaginary things unless you believe in ghosts or fairies.

You can disagree without the disparaging comments ... that's two now and I'm counting ....

 

[aj180949]

My hives appear to occasionally produce large amounts of honey.
I don't find any leylines in my garden.

What am I doing wrong?

You don't find any leylines in my garden. Do you have any evidence they are not there?

 

[aj180949]

How do you test for the places where swarms have settled without having existing knowledge of the location that might be a subconscious influence? Thats something that also struck me when reading RPs page about the topic.

I can only test places where swarms have settled. If I test places they did not, it proves nothing either way, regardless of the test result. Please consider this.

 

[aj180949]

You don't find any leylines in my garden. Do you have any evidence they are not there?

Correction - "in your garden"

 

[aj180949]

Science explains all the phenomena that have been mentioned, including birds' homing and migration. No need to invent imaginary things unless you believe in ghosts or fairies.

How can the currently existing science explain my so far 100% success rate? I really tried to prove the stuff wrong but failed. I have a scientific background and did my best. Eventually gave up. Try for yourself to prove that it is nonsense, I wish you luck, just do not criticise blind.

I do not question the fact that you do not believe in it, but here we are in the realms of religion ("believe" is the leading word and you used it, not me). Try a scientific approach, not 'believe'. I will gladly stand corrected by evidence, 'believe' does not cut it.

Science is a fickle thing. It says that masks are crap, then that they will save all of us from immediate mass death. Follow the science....

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I rest my case ....

I remember many years ago sailing on a round patrol from Lowestoft to the Dutch coast (for afternoon tea) and back. halfway over a flock of racing pigeons decided to take a rest on our flying bridge, when we got a few miles from the Dutch coast, most had flown off towards the Netherlands but a half dozen stayed sheltering, tucked behind the weather guard. from where they were, all they could see was grey walls and some sky, from my station at the chart table, I could see them on the flying bridge as there was a small eye level window which was at deck level where they were. I mentioned this built in compass thing to my commander who said 'OK, let's test this - let's box the compass!' so for the next fifteen minutes or so we slowly described a pirrouette pointing our nose at each compass position, at first, the pigeons got very agitated, but then settled down and just kept shuffling around - always pointing towards the Durch coast. when we finally set sail again for Blighty, one by one, the pigeons took off in the direction of Holland....apart from one which stayed on board all the way back to Lowestoft whe (quite wisely) it decided that to start the long slog back to Holland was the most attractive option

 

[Boston Bees]

I started tracing each and every place where a swarm hang on a tree or landed on the ground. For the last 3 years I tested 50 places or more. Regrettably, I am yet to find even one place where my sticks would not indicate at least two of these 'energy lines or whatever' crossing.

The problem with that after-the-fact approach is that dowsing sticks reflect information that the user already knows. If you are testing for swarm sites using places you already know swarms have landed, your mind will, I suspect, subconsciously make your hands twitch the rods on those locations.

If you were using dowsing to identify locations where bees WOULD land in future, and then they did, that would be scientifically interesting (though still very subjective, as it could simply be that your beekeeper brain knows that a location would be attractive for a swarm).

As for the honey crop, in the absence of a multi-year randomised trial that's just confirmation bias I am afraid. If you had put half your hives on "bad" energy locations, and half on "good", and there had been a noticable difference in crops over several years, now THAT would be worth talking about.