Best way to increase hive numbers

[Nick Lang]

First off .....I want to say thank you to folks who gave me advice on performing a pagden split....it worked really well...I now have two hives with two new queens that are laying well and seem to be settled into good rhythm.

What is the best way to create a third hive from the two I have???....or would it weaken by asking too much from the two new queens to provide frames??

I was thinking of taking a frame of brood from each hive and a frame of honey from each and placing them in a nuc.....would they then create queen cells....or should I buy in a mated queen and would I then ultimately get a third nuc or hive?? Ta

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

wait until they are both laying on eight frames before thinking of mucking them around any more this season

 

[Nick Lang]

Okay...thank you!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

by that time you will be looking at the end of the season, you could take a nuc off then, but if you are minded to it will go into winter better with an introduced bought in mated queen rather than waiting ages for them to raise their own.
Personally I would concentrate on getting these two hives built up and strong for the winter and think of making increase next spring.
Don't get dragged down the rabbit hole of the usual suspects urging you to split at every opportunity so you have more going into winter but expecting there to be mortalities - it's the reason they have colonies that die in winter.
It is better that you have two strong colonies going into winter, than three or even four mediocre ones that struggle to make it to the spring.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Absolutely agree.

It is better that you have two strong colonies going into winter, than three or even four mediocre ones that struggle to make it to the spring.

You’ll be glad you were patient.
When you have six hives and you’ve had to do some sort of swarm management because they all made swarm preps at the same time you’ll remember the bliss of having just two.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

You’ll be glad you were patient. When you have six hives and you’ve had to do some sort of swarm management because they all made swarm preps at the same time you’ll remember the bliss of having just two.

How do you think I feel!?

 

[Erichalfbee]

How do you think I feel!?

I was easing the poor chap in gently

 

[Nick Lang]

Thanks both...I had a nagging suspicion I was asking too much and spreading my butter a bit thin.

 

[Nighthaunt]

With swarm control and artificial splits next spring will likely be upto 4 (unless your looking to merge) - the year after 8, then 16…

this year went in with 2 (1 hive and 1 overwintered nuc) - due to some bizarre swarm behaviour in the main hive and agreeing to give a nuc to 2 fellow beginners who lost theirs overwinter, and donating 2 to the local association who have organised a new apiary site at one point had 5 in the garden - down to 4 now despite adding Welsh bees - waiting for the site to be ready to get the NUC’s sorted (one on national brood frames is double brood (11 frames since yesterday) and the 14 x 12 has had a super with part filled frames added (from another double brood national nuc provided to a fellow beek with a Hyde long hive)

mom not fibbing when I say I’m looking forward to getting down to just my two main hives.

 

[ericbeaumont]

taking a frame of brood from each hive and a frame of honey from each and placing them in a nuc.....would they then create queen cells

Yes, but poor ones.

Plenty of young nurse bees are needed to make well-fed queens of quality and a two-frame nuc will never do it. Go with JBM's advice and if you want an extra couple of nucs to overwinter (a good plan) buy in queens and make up nucs after the main flow.

Dave Cushman's A-Z has practical advice regarding the 2-frame nuc, useful for mating (not making) queens, and also methods of making increase.

 

[Nick Lang]

Yes, but poor ones.

Plenty of young nurse bees are needed to make well-fed queens of quality and a two-frame nuc will never do it. Go with JBM's advice and if you want an extra couple of nucs to overwinter (a good plan) buy in queens and make up nucs after the main flow.

Dave Cushman's A-Z has practical advice regarding the 2-frame nuc, useful for mating (not making) queens, and also methods of making increase.

Thank you.......I think I will do as you say....and buy in some mated queens after the flow....and create some nucs for over-wintering ...that sounds quite interesting/exciting!
I'll deffo be sniffing around to pick your brains about setting up the nucs closer to the time

 

[ericbeaumont]

buy in some mated queens after the flow

Main risk at that time is wasps, which will rip into weak nucs.

I use 3-frame poly nucs in summer when wasps are not a threat, and have done so when introducing queens in late summer (though with heavy losses from wasps at one apiary) but while 6-frame nucs use more stock they ought to be able to repel wasps better. Make them strong, whichever size.

Wasp predation depends on the survival of wasp queens the previous winter; about three years ago they were a significant threat in late summer; best solution in this case is to move the nucs three miles.