Behaviour when introducing a new queen?

[merylvingien]

Hi guys n gals.
I have recently introduced new queens to 4 of my colonies in hopes to reduce aggressive tendancies.
What sort of behaviour would you expect to see on the queen cage before letting them out?

On 3 that i have looked at today, there was lots of interest on and around the cages, but i couldnt see any biting or stinging, but to be honest there were that many bees it was hard to see. I wouldnt have said they were balling the cage.
The cages have been in for 4 days now and unfortunatley they didnt have the candy plug holes. So its a manual release job.
I have let these 3 out and i suppose its a take your chances now.
Just after some opinions as to what you would like to see before release?

 

[Polyanwood]

Either make up some candy ( you can just mix icing sugar and water, but make it very thick/solid) and pop it in and cut off the plastic tabs or you can cut of plastic tabs, put a tiny sheet or two of newspaper over the end, strongly secured by an elastic band and either way they will free the queen.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

I usually keep a queen cage of some sort with newspaper and an elastic band in my pocket or in the back of the car.
An elastic band and paper will do rather than candy and will keep in your pocket!.

I was always told to make the candy like a brick rather than too sloppy to slow down the release.

 

[plumberman]

Having lost a few expensive queens, my best advice is time: I made up a see through section in a nucleus cover ( as per Dave Cushman) so that I could observe bee behaviour through this. With a nucleus it was often 5-6 days before I was happy that the bees were effectively ignoring the queen, with a full hive I would imagine it would be longer, especially if they are aggressive. I would not be in a hurry to release your last queen!

 

[merylvingien]

Thanks for the replies, i was more interested in what you would expect to actually see happening when you open the lid. No bees on the cage, a few, or lots of interest in the queen?

 

[Finman]

Thanks for the replies, i was more interested in what you would expect to actually see happening when you open the lid. No bees on the cage, a few, or lots of interest in the queen?

the less interst the better, the anxious the worse.

My procedure is:

- I show the cage to bees what they like. If bees bite the cage and keep it with jaws, it is a bad design.

- when inner cpver has bees, I release the queen walk with bees. It workers only tap the queen with antennae, it is good. If workers try to take queens leg or wing between jaws, it is bad.

- Some jump on and start to give sting. Then the queen must be soaked in warm water. It has got poison on its surface and no bee accept it after that.



If I have valuable queen I make a nuc over the big hive. There I put a frame of emerging bees and the I stuck all holes for 3 days. When I open the nuc, there are new bees there and the queen is laying.

There is a big difference in acceptance of 2 weeks old queen and 4 weeks old.

 

[plumberman]

Thanks for the replies, i was more interested in what you would expect to actually see happening when you open the lid. No bees on the cage, a few, or lots of interest in the queen?

This was video taken of bee's behaviour about 12 hours post introduction - persistent biting of cage and not a good sign.

HTH

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRm2Yi2oUug[/ame]

 

[merylvingien]

Hmmm i believe i have a bad case of premature release. Time will tell i suppose, but it may be an expensive lesson learned.

Thanks for the comments.

 

[Stiffy]

Many of the instructions that come with new queens advise that you just need to make sure colony has been Q- for 24hrs and then pop in and let them eat their way to her.
Having, in the past lost many queens I now seal the end with masking tape and check every 3 days to see how they are behaving. I checked one yesterday and even with tape they had chewed through and released!
I do wonder how long it would take a colony to get to the queen if only the candy plug was in place, probably a few hours with little chance of acceptance.
Cheers
S

PS beware Bxxxxstaffes MM. I had some last year which are now full colonies and extremely aggresive and follow. Not sure what they were crossed with, beelzebub I think

 

[Hebeegeebee]

The plastic plug can be left in place for 3 days and then broken off only if the bees are not miffed with the new queen being there. Once the plastic has been broken the stiff candy will allow th bees to eat to the queen slowly with the hive closed up and as 'normal' as possible.

I've not lost a queen yet, although I did have one that was 'not allowed' to lay aftr introduction and they swarmed a week later with her thus rendering the remaining colony queenless and nasty.

Nucs will accept a queen more easily so it's better to introduce a queen to a nuc and then unite with newspaper with a nasty colony later on.

 

[RoseCottage]

Stiffy I thought Buck fasts hybrids were meant to be calm...one of their major selling points no?

 

[Skyhook]

Stiffy I thought Buck fasts hybrids were meant to be calm...one of their major selling points no?

Yes, but he didn't mention buckfasts. I believe MM/Italian is supposed to be a nasty cross.

 

[susbees]

Yes, but he didn't mention buckfasts. I believe MM/Italian is supposed to be a nasty cross.

Aren't all their queens open mated? Goes off to check...Hmm, photo of II equipment might be seen as misleading:

"The queens are freely mated from some 2000 mini nucs placed in fields surrounding the main bee house."

"Cages of different races are organised and recorded before placed in boxes."

Perhaps it should read cages of different crosses with no guarantee of temperament?

 

[djg]

Nucs will accept a queen more easily so it's better to introduce a queen to a nuc and then unite with newspaper with a nasty colony later on.

Hebeegeebee,

Thank you for you suggestions on this thread. I have a virgin from a "good" queen in a nuc which I am intending to introduce to a 14x12 hive made up from a re-combined AS (which may contain a virgin from a "bad" Q), where the original Q seems to have departed soon after the AS. So it looks like (and they behave as if, with all brood now hatched) one has been Q- for 2-3 weeks, one possibly a week longer.

I follow you up to the "introduce a queen to a nuc then unite with newspaper" bit. What technique do you use to execute this plan, since the nuc box and the 14x12 are not the same form factor (I united the two failed AS colonies with newspaper over Queen Excluder, but the box-on-box fit makes that easy)?

 

[Stiffy]

Aren't all their queens open mated? Goes off to check...Hmm, photo of II equipment might be seen as misleading:

"The queens are freely mated from some 2000 mini nucs placed in fields surrounding the main bee house."

"Cages of different races are organised and recorded before placed in boxes."

Perhaps it should read cages of different crosses with no guarantee of temperament?

The queens were supposed to be AMM but some have a huge amount of yellow in them, I would guess that the queen took a fancy to a few Carnie drones. As I understand they are supposed to take each virgin breed to an isolated mating apiary to try and ensure that they are kept to type?
Cheers
S

 

[Stiffy]

The plastic plug can be left in place for 3 days and then broken off only if the bees are not miffed with the new queen being there. Once the plastic has been broken the stiff candy will allow th bees to eat to the queen slowly with the hive closed up and as 'normal' as possible.

I've not lost a queen yet, although I did have one that was 'not allowed' to lay aftr introduction and they swarmed a week later with her thus rendering the remaining colony queenless and nasty.

Nucs will accept a queen more easily so it's better to introduce a queen to a nuc and then unite with newspaper with a nasty colony later on.

What I was actually saying is that the instructions provided with new queens leaves a lot to be desired and many queens are supplied without the plastic cap or just a peice of sellotape covering the end.


I must say I am very impressed that you have never lost a queen when introducing as this I beleive is the hardest thing about bee keeping.
Cheers
S

 

[merylvingien]

What I was actually saying is that the instructions provided with new queens leaves a lot to be desired and many queens are supplied without the plastic cap or just a peice of sellotape covering the end.


I must say I am very impressed that you have never lost a queen when introducing as this I beleive is the hardest thing about bee keeping.
Cheers
S

What instructions? Mine came taped to a piece of blank cardboard...

 

[Mike a]

Superseding two new queens

I bought two NZ queens a couple of weeks ago and put each of them into a nuc's worth of mostly young bees. A few days later I returned and was happy to remove the cap to the fondant and once free both started to lay without any problems.

HOWEVER
After a quick inspection yesterday I've found both colonies were in the process of superseding their queens despite both queens continuing to lay well whilst I was inspecting them and not a single drone capping. Both colonies have raised 3 cells each and they are all well developed with a nice bed of royal jelly and each had a nice fat grub in it.

I decided to fly in the face of normal wisdom and knock down all the cells. I can't honestly believe both queens are so poorly mated they need to be superseded within a couple of weeks of introduction. Anyone else have any similar issues?

 

[plumberman]

Similar situation in a nucleus (NZ queen) and full colony ( just mated queen) - one QC with royal jelly and grub: this despite both queens firing on all 8 cylinders. Bit of anecdotal evidence on Beesource ( USA information granted!) suggests that if the queen is of a different race bees sense this "foreigness" and may supercede. Same thread says if you knock off any similar cells they give up after 3 weeks or so.

Going to be my approach short term anyway.

 

[Mike a]

Cheers Plumberman

they give up after 3 weeks or so

Ok, that is not what I was hoping to read but it makes sense as its around the time her own brood will start emerging.