Beginners Query

[Martyn15]

Following a beekeeping course earlier in the year we bought our first nuc in late June and set up one National hive. All going well so far with most frames in the brood box drawn out (one side of one frame isn't). The colony is clearly increasing significantly and so 2 weeks ago we took the decision to add a super and stop feeding (which we had been since June). However, there is clearly little activity in the super and none of the frames have been drawn out.
So our questions are:
1. Have we added the super too soon ?
2. Should we remove the super and recommence feeding ?
3. Any other advice gratefully received

Many thanks

 

[Greggorio]

I'm also a beginner but did you add a queen excluder between brood box and super. Ted hooper says that bees can be loath to go through one into a box of foundation. He says to remove it and they will draw out comb and after a week or so find the queen and move her back down (which might be easier said than done)

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[jenkinsbrynmair]

Why have you been feeding all this time?
How many frames in the brood box actually have brood in?
As for the super - never had a problem with bees reluctant to go through a queen excluder, however, they will only go up into the super if they need the space - my feeling is that the colony may be happy enough with just the brood box.
How much stores do they have in the BB ?

 

[enrico]

Leave the super on for the moment. They will use it if they need it. Stop feeding. Look in the brood box and see how many frames of stores they have. You have to leave the queen room to lay eggs but bees are a bit stupid and if you give them too much food they will fill egg laying area with food instead. At this time of the year you should expect to see brood in most of the frames that have been drawn but they must have been putting that food somewhere! If you find that the brood frames are full of food then take a couple out and let them use the food to draw out new frames. Keep the ones you took out for later in the year as winter food. They may start to move some of the food up into the super if they need more room, but then again they may not. You could remove the QE and just let them have a bit more room for the moment. We really need to know what is happening in the brood box before we can give any real advice. Let us know a bit more info and we will try and help.
E

 

[itma]

As above, really need more info on the state of the colony.

I'd add two suggestions.
1/ Forget any idea of a honey crop this year. You can't even pinch one of the brood box stores frames as that will be full of the syrup you have been feeding!
Your aim now needs to be maximising the number of (healthy, varroa-free) bees going into winter.
2/ Single National brood is a bit small for most Queen's spring laying needs and can be a bit marginal on space for enough winter stores. So many beekeepers either use plural boxes for the brood area or else use bigger boxes.
Adding a shallow box (like a crop super) for brood (to give "brood and a half") is very common (even though I don't like it!). That means the shallow box being equipped like a brood box to take 11 close-spaced frames - ideally with hoffman spacers and resting on rails.
And, to get the bees to expand into brood and a half, I'd put the additional box under the brood, so that the bees can, as in nature, expand downwards. You aren't wanting to restrict Q, so no Excluder! (Placed underneath, the box is called a 'nadir'; 'super' actually means above -- so I've referred to a 'shallow' box ...)

 

[birdsandbees]

This is very interesting and relevant to what I am doing currently, I have a six frame Nuc that I have recently added another six frame Nuc extension from Paynes above, with Hoffman frames and foundation which the bees are building on but should I have moved the current frames into the top and put the new ones underneath?
Sorry to jump in but I thought it was relevant as I'm in a similar situation.

 

[itma]

This is very interesting and relevant to what I am doing currently, I have a six frame Nuc that I have recently added another six frame Nuc extension from Paynes above, with Hoffman frames and foundation which the bees are building on but should I have moved the current frames into the top and put the new ones underneath?
Sorry to jump in but I thought it was relevant as I'm in a similar situation.

The bees will find it easier to draw comb below than to jump all the way to the top of the box above (they start at the top of the frame).
Easier means that they can do it faster, with less beepower, freeing more beepower for foraging, which means more need for comb and fuel for comb-building ... so they should expand faster, with less risk of becoming crowded before the new comb is ready for use.

 

[enrico]

I would be moving them into a brood box, any reason why you are sticking with the nuc?
It is sort of polite to start your own thread.... I can understand why you didn't but things start to get confusing if more than one answer is on a thread to more than one question.
E

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I would be moving them into a brood box, any reason why you are sticking with the nuc?
It is sort of polite to start your own thread.... I can understand why you didn't but things start to get confusing if more than one answer is on a thread to more than one question.
E

I'm at a loss as well why people mess around wih these multi storey nucs.
But back to the OP shall we?

 

[For want of a better word]

I'm at a loss as well why people mess around wih these multi storey nucs.
But back to the OP shall we?

Martyn.... Check for brood... brood in all stages is good... outer frame should be stuffed to the gunnells with all that feeding... may even have to replace with some drawn comb to give Q a place to lay.
Do not nadire without frames... bees will simply carry on building comb downwards!

I will admit I did this once, had a messy resolution in the Spring cutting off the comb full of brood and setting it in some SN1 frames ( on bunnyrabbit cage wire for support) then placing above the brood box to go brood + 1/2
Yeghes da

 

[YorkshireBees]

Bees draw comb for a reason.

1. They need more brood space
2. They need more space to store incoming food (nectar / pollen / syrup).

They don't draw comb unless they need it.

Feeding can promote comb drawing but it's a fine balance between they drawing comb and filling all available space with stores not leaving any for the queen to lay in!

They also need temperature!

Personally, at this point in the year,I would say that only a very strong colony with a good nectar flow will draw a completely new super.