Bees not taking winter feed

[nuporter]

Hi- really sorry if there is already a thread on this- have looked but not found one yet.
I have 3 hives in my garden. Started feeding 2-1 sugar syrup on 25th sept, 2 hives have been taking it happily and are nearly at 40lb each whereas one of my hives have not taken anything.
This hive was my biggest and was on brood and half through the summer. Took 2 supers of honey off, fed apiguard and reduced to brood box for winter. New queen this year.
I have tried sugar syrup with 2drops of peppermint essence - they didn't take any, and I have put on bakers fondant but they are not touching this ( since last Friday). I looked in the brood box briefly on a sunny day and there are drawn but empty frames- and box feels light.
Today I noticed all 3 hives bringing in yellow pollen.
I have never experienced this before and really don't know what to do next. Any suggestions would be gratefully received. Thanks. Nuala x

 

[REDWOOD]

Have you checked for nosema

 

[oliver90owner]

As Redwood, but just a question on the weights. Are they close to 40lbs gross or net? If a gross figure, that is not enough.

RAB

 

[richardbees]

nuala,

What sort of feeder are you using? For bulk feeding I use a Miller /Ashworth feeder with holes down one side and ALWAYS trickle syrup down through the access holes to let them know it's there - also applies to Rapid Feeder.

Let us know how it goes

 

[nuporter]

Hi. The 40 lbs is the amount of sugar the other two hives have taken.
I haven't checked for nosema- is there a way of doing that? There isn't any bee poo dripping on the side of the hive. Is it worth treating for nosema - if so - what treatment is there now you can't get fumidal b?
I am using a contact feeder ( and have always done in the past) and some of the syrup did drip down into the hive as well as on the crown board both times I have put sugar syrup on. The fondant is in a bag with big rips in laying on the queen excluder above the brood box.
I'm aware I am running out of time now winter is approaching.
Thanks. Nuala x

Just read a previous thread about nosema. This hive was a swarm collected early on this year- and was put on new comb. Thread suggests treating with thymol in the syrup - tho not sure if this will work if the bees aren't taking the syrup!

 

[richardbees]

Nuala,

I think I understand your current situation and suggest you remove (and seal) the fondant.

Take off the QE together with any ekes and put the crownboard directly on top of the frames with the Rapid feeder over the centre hole.

richard

 

[enrico]

Nuala,

I think I understand your current situation and suggest you remove (and seal) the fondant.

Take off the QE together with any ekes and put the crownboard directly on top of the frames with the Rapid feeder over the centre hole.

richard

they just haven't found it. You need to be certain they know it is there!
E

 

[REDWOOD]

There are 2 types of nosema one will show bee poo and the other won't. To test is quite easy
collect a hand full of bees in a jam jar
freeze the jam jar (won't take long to kill bees)
remove bees and remove abdomens
crush into a paste and add a few drops of water
put a drop of the fluid on a microscope slide and place a slip over it
place the slid under a microscope on 400 magnification
if the sample is positive then there will be little rice grain spores

 

[nuporter]

Thanks. I have used the feeder over the crown board as you suggest Richard - with 8 lbs sugar on the 25th sept, threw that away untouched after a week, then tried again with 3lb sugar on the 13th October - again untouched- although this was with the queen excluder under the crown board. Will remove the fondant and QE tomorrow and try again with sugar syrup. Will need a super to contain the feeder. Luckily - still quite warm down here in southampton!
Cheers for info about checking for nosema redwood. Will try that (tho don't like killing bees) . If positive any suggestions as they aren't taking food at mo?
Thanks everyone. Constantly learning with this hobby!!
Nuala x

 

[richardbees]

Nuala, maybe they couldn't be bothered because of the unusually good nectar flow?
It's important you have the feeder as close to the top of the frames as possible and keep trickling syrup down the hole until you see them coming up. Good luck, Richard

 

[Illo]

I have been feeding ambrosia this year and found the bees took it much more readily than sugar syrup. You could try this if the syrup is still a problem. Also it's getting a bit late in the year for the bees to process syrup; ambrosia is nearer the % water they will reduce to! and so less work for the bees.

With a rapid feeder, I have sometimes dangled a piece of grass or twig from the syrup, up through the cone and into the hive cavity. It acts as a 'ladder' to guide the bees into the syrup.

Good luck, and keep us posted.

LJ

 

[oliver90owner]

Using a little of their own honey as a 'trail' is better than plain sugar syrup.

Works every time with no uncertainty.

RAB

 

[Amari]

remove bees and remove abdomens

Do you mean that abdomens or heads & thoraces are crushed for the microscopy?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Where is a bowel infection likely to be?
Head/thorax or abdomen?
couldn't resist

 

[pargyle]

remove bees and remove abdomens

Do you mean that abdomens or heads & thoraces are crushed for the microscopy?

Abdomens ... if they are there, the spores are very easy to see and identify.

 

[rugbee]

Hi- really sorry if there is already a thread on this- have looked but not found one yet.
I have 3 hives in my garden. Started feeding 2-1 sugar syrup on 25th sept, 2 hives have been taking it happily and are nearly at 40lb each whereas one of my hives have not taken anything.
This hive was my biggest and was on brood and half through the summer. Took 2 supers of honey off, fed apiguard and reduced to brood box for winter. New queen this year.
I have tried sugar syrup with 2drops of peppermint essence - they didn't take any, and I have put on bakers fondant but they are not touching this ( since last Friday). I looked in the brood box briefly on a sunny day and there are drawn but empty frames- and box feels light.
Today I noticed all 3 hives bringing in yellow pollen.
I have never experienced this before and really don't know what to do next. Any suggestions would be gratefully received. Thanks. Nuala x

i am new to all this why would you put peppermint essence in feed

 

[Erichalfbee]

Possibly to give the syrup a smell?
The most common additive in this respect is lemongrass oil (which has uses in bait hives too); only a couple of drops in five litres though.....strong stuff

 

[itma]

i am new to all this why would you put peppermint essence in feed

Possibly to give the syrup a smell?

Needs to be emphasised that syrup has no smell (unlike flowers' nectar) and thus syrup doesn't itself attract the bees.
I find that a Bay leaf (I've plenty to hand and the leaves are long, slender and fairly stiff) dipped in syrup and stuffed down the feeder throat as a combined signpost and ladder works pretty reliably.

However, bearing in mind that the scented oil isn't going to dissolve in the syrup, I have my doubts that it can be very effective. A wipe around the throat of the feeder with a scented rag might do more.

Lemongrass (but not citronella "lemongrass") is a well-known bee attractant, a regular choice when trying to make a bait hive particularly attractive to any nearby swarm. (And it is also how a lot of human "bee beards" are created.) Just don't get it on your bee suit ...

 

[nuporter]

Hi. I put peppermint essence in after reading that to set up a water source near bees you can put peppermint in that to initially attract them. Didn't work anyway!!
This morning I have removed QE, smeared their own honey around the middle hole on crown board, down onto the frames and even put a little onto the gauze on the contact feeder. The bees were on this honey like a shot. 3lbs sugar syrup in contact feeder.... - shall check Friday morning to see if this has worked.
Thanks for all help. Nuala x

 

[drstitson]

"The most common additive in this respect is lemongrass oil "

or wintergreen - even stronger.