Bees ignoring supers

[Maz1]

Hi, I have two national hives that seem in great health with all frames absolutely heaving with bees, brood and stores, I put a super on each with an excluder about a month ago but even though the traffic in and out of both hives is incredible, the bees are ignoring the foundation in the supers. At most I see a few bees wandering around in the supers.
The blackberry and other flowers have been very abundant so I’m worried that I’ve missed the main flow. Any ideas?

Thanks.

 

[simonforeman]

I think the answer you will get back from most is they will use it when they need it.....

I had a hive just the same in the spring. It's now nearly filled its 6th super and my biggest hive.

 

[Ian123]

In many areas mine included the main flow is almost over. If you want them up quicker take the excluder off you can always slide it back on next inspection after ensuring Queen is bellow. It makes no odds if the queen lays up a frame or 2. Whilst many may say they will use it when needed I have found over the years many instances of bees being reticent to pass excluders or get up into a box of foundation. You will have to decide at this point if you want to try for a super of honey or maybe add a second brood, it depends on your local forage and any late sources plus when/how you intend to treat for varroa.

 

[madasafish]

Put a super frame with foundation into the brood box for them to draw out. They will probably do that it under 2 days. PROMPTLY remove it when drawn.(If not, the queen will lay in it).###
Place in centre of super complete with bees. This should encourage them to enter the super.

Only have one super on each hive.. two - both with undrawn foundation - is a cold space outside the hive...

### ONLY do this if you can inspect after 36-48 hours. (weekend?) If you leave too long, then eggs and brood which defeats the purpose..

Then when you do add a second super, take a drawn filled comb from super one and place in super two to encourage use of that.

This works BUT note the warnings.

 

[enrico]

It will happen.i have a split that is going great guns this year. It has filled the brood box so I added another to give it room. No queen excluder. The bees just ignore it. A few walk over the frames so they know where it is. I am leaving them to it as a sort of experiment!
E

 

[Ian123]

Put a super frame with foundation into the brood box for them to draw out. They will probably do that it under 2 days. PROMPTLY remove it when drawn.(If not, the queen will lay in it).###
Place in centre of super complete with bees. This should encourage them to enter the super.

Only have one super on each hive.. two - both with undrawn foundation - is a cold space outside the hive...

### ONLY do this if you can inspect after 36-48 hours. (weekend?) If you leave too long, then eggs and brood which defeats the purpose..

Then when you do add a second super, take a drawn filled comb from super one and place in super two to encourage use of that.

This works BUT note the warnings.

Spot on

 

[Poly Hive]

Maz1 you say the brood boxes are heaving etc etc. How many frames of brood do they have please?


PH

 

[Maz1]

Put a super frame with foundation into the brood box for them to draw out. They will probably do that it under 2 days. PROMPTLY remove it when drawn.(If not, the queen will lay in it).###
Place in centre of super complete with bees. This should encourage them to enter the super.

Only have one super on each hive.. two - both with undrawn foundation - is a cold space outside the hive...

### ONLY do this if you can inspect after 36-48 hours. (weekend?) If you leave too long, then eggs and brood which defeats the purpose..

Then when you do add a second super, take a drawn filled comb from super one and place in super two to encourage use of that.

This works BUT note the warnings.

Sounds like a good plan. I’ll try this.

 

[Maz1]

Maz1 you say the brood boxes are heaving etc etc. How many frames of brood do they have please?


PH

I’m not sure exactly without looking but I would say 6/7.

 

[For want of a better word]

With our Rose OSB Cornish Native bees) we do not use queen excluders.... some are going on for 8 boxes high with bottom two full of brood!
Try taking out the queen excluders.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I’m not sure exactly without looking but I would say 6/7.

That's your answer - still building up - they will go up when they are ready/need to. No need for any magic tricks

 

[JonnyPicklechin]

That's your answer - still building up - they will go up when they are ready/need to. No need for any magic tricks

Emyr - Just got back on the forum and see you have returned. Welcome back sir....glad to see you. It was not the same. JP

 

[Poly Hive]

I don't super before 8 so these colonies have been held back by that extra 50% space they don't yet need. Classic beginners pitfall.


PH

 

[maz0]

I don't super before 8 so these colonies have been held back by that extra 50% space they don't yet need. Classic beginners pitfall.


PH

It is, and its quite tough as a beginner to get it right, when your on your own and left to it, you read on here about “flows on” and “5 supers high” and you think you need to react cos your hive is still in single brood box, but its got lots of entrance activity and lots of bees when you take the roof off, so is it 2nd brood box time, will they just store all their honey and brood in there when you really want them storing it in a super, maybe you just try the super but its not drawn comb because your on your first hive and dont have any so you get 20 bee’s milling about on it, then next minute theres 6 queen cells arrggh!!

 

[Woodland bees]

I think saying it's a classic beginners pitfall is a bit harsh. When I've had a colony on about 7-8 frames of brood start swarm prep I've been told I've made a beginners mistake by not adding a super quick enough.

Would adding a super at this time of year in the south of England really hold a colony back?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Would adding a super at this time of year in the south of England really hold a colony back?

Maybe maybe not. The fact that they are ignoring it is a clue though

 

[Woodland bees]

Maybe maybe not. The fact that they are ignoring it is a clue though

A clue to holding them back? Or just simply they don't need it yet? I.e. is it actually harming them?

 

[Clemcook]

It will happen.i have a split that is going great guns this year. It has filled the brood box so I added another to give it room. No queen excluder. The bees just ignore it. A few walk over the frames so they know where it is. I am leaving them to it as a sort of experiment!
E

I've had three incredible splits this year, two on double brood, all filling supers!

 

[Clemcook]

It is, and its quite tough as a beginner to get it right, when your on your own and left to it, you read on here about “flows on” and “5 supers high” and you think you need to react cos your hive is still in single brood box, but its got lots of entrance activity and lots of bees when you take the roof off, so is it 2nd brood box time, will they just store all their honey and brood in there when you really want them storing it in a super, maybe you just try the super but its not drawn comb because your on your first hive and dont have any so you get 20 bee’s milling about on it, then next minute theres 6 queen cells arrggh!!

I've lost a few by not giving too much space through swarming. You get to know your bees, it will take a few years however, you will.

Always learning!

 

[Clemcook]

A clue to holding them back? Or just simply they don't need it yet? I.e. is it actually harming them?

I've been here too, personally it depends on the rate of lay.

For me, it's a little more frustrating dealing with a swarm this late in the year than worrying about too much space.

If she's a good layer I wouldn't worry

I don't 'micro manage' my girls and they always sort themselves out