bees for Chycarne

[chycarne]

We are looking to got some bees for our very maritime climate. we have a couple of orders in with a couple of locals... but are looking for some more to give the best genetic variety we can. we have gone miles away with one of the orders (Scotland and we will be meeting half way or something...) but we would love some more Irish native or Welsh native (Gower or similar) anoyone able to offer - we will be paying, (ouch) just being fussy for our sources- wet windy and warmish, coastel types, ideally not too swarmy and friendlyish though we know that friendly in one place may not be friendly elsewhere. being even fussier anyone at altitude even better still... cor strewff .... ah well if you dont ask you dont get, PM me /us if you can please...

 

[MuswellMetro]

We are looking to got some bees for our very maritime climate. we have a couple of orders in with a couple of locals... but are looking for some more to give the best genetic variety we can. we have gone miles away with one of the orders (Scotland and we will be meeting half way or something...) but we would love some more Irish native or Welsh native (Gower or similar) anoyone able to offer - we will be paying, (ouch) just being fussy for our sources- wet windy and warmish, coastel types, ideally not too swarmy and friendlyish though we know that friendly in one place may not be friendly elsewhere. being even fussier anyone at altitude even better still... cor strewff .... ah well if you dont ask you dont get, PM me /us if you can please...

my veiw is always go local

major aggression issues can arise when you mixed gene pools from long distances as with X of native AMM and european stock

personally I don't think you are wise to X Scottish country bees with those from Cornwall , the gene pools are separate and are isolated from each other and it will be a total lottery as to how calm they are and how they tolerate your wet mild climate

but others may disagree, i use AMLx as that is what the major genetic pool is in my area

 

[chycarne]

MM, I agree, but strongly feel that the need to go further afield to improve the basic stock is a must. We have all spent a lot of time breeding our good bees and i feel that to add in some now before it is too late is the only way to egt some improvement. yes it could be an interesting couple of years but the end result will be a better stock. Start now before we have 20 hives of home bred... and suddenly find 10 hives are horrible, we will have one or three horrible which can be worked though. I accept I am being over fussy I do though worry about keeping the strain too local. I used to do breeding line research for a Zoo and also my own interest in Genetics is leading me astray. The other point you raise is also true hence only looking coastaly for our sources. I actually agree with you but... sometimes the risk has to be taken and I am not looking forward to some of the fall out... We will also be keeping some of the base lines we currently have fairly seporate but as we can we will be broadening the overall base.

 

[victor meldrew]

I have stock from the Northeast Alnwick,
I don't think distance within the uk allows for true isolation.
EG . Varroa discovered in Torbay in 1992, arrive in my area 1996 . Scotland a little later . Remember varroa is only mobile via hitching a ride on a bee ,yet it's spread has been phenomenal !

John Wilkinson

 

[chycarne]

John,
Again I mostly agree, though maiting flights tend to be more local, to be honest I am not looking for anything with this, really am just trying to broaden the base a little bit. I think we only have to look at how either human or insect or indeed potato blight bugs spread to realise it is a small patch we live on. But as with the spuds, bananas and OSR keeping to one small genetic diverse group will lead to problems... I freely admit it is my own philosophy and will mean some pain, but I hope over a (very) short period of time I will be happier with the bees we have - aiming to have 12- 14 colonies with 6 - 8 being from further afield. We have 2 that are distantly related and one unknown local swarm. If we find strains that have particular traits then we will look at those more but they wont be purely selected for, rather we will try and breed those traits into other lines. thank you John and MM for your replies though... keep em coming as I say to the athletes I coach, if you dont challenge me how am I going to learn? and, how will I then make a difference? and yes I also love reading and learning still... and I hope always will. But sometimes it is someone elses thoughts that help you think again. My ME has slowed me down a bit, but I am now fighting back and begining to enjoy life again after 3 years.

 

[victor meldrew]

Most living beings have strategies for preventing inbreeding .
With honeybees it's the formation of drone congregation zones plus the Queens natural promiscuity and the swarming instinct that is the basis of their strategy !

I understand your concern with reference to inbreeding, diploid drones being an obviously spotted manifestation !

Bee breeders have the opposite fear of having ther queens inseminated by undesirable drones (undesirable to the bee breeder that is )

I am with you in as much as a wide gene pool has the components to ensure survival in the changing environment .One major change (leaving Varroa out) is the proximity to people requiring a not too defensive type of honeybee! when in reality , the defensive bee is the better equipt for survival

John Wilkinson

 

[MuswellMetro]

MM, I agree, but strongly feel that the need to go further afield to improve the basic stock is a must. We have all spent a lot of time breeding our good bees and i feel that to add in some now before it is too late is the only way to egt some improvement. yes it could be an interesting couple of years but the end result will be a better stock. Start now before we have 20 hives of home bred... and suddenly find 10 hives are horrible, we will have one or three horrible which can be worked though. I accept I am being over fussy I do though worry about keeping the strain too local. I used to do breeding line research for a Zoo and also my own interest in Genetics is leading me astray. The other point you raise is also true hence only looking coastaly for our sources. I actually agree with you but... sometimes the risk has to be taken and I am not looking forward to some of the fall out... We will also be keeping some of the base lines we currently have fairly sepor

ate but as we can we will be broadening the overall base.

ok, understand, i thought you might be an adventurous beginner

f you know want you to do and you can do it under controlled conditions, interested to see the results

but why BUY Nucs of bees, would it not be simpler just to buy mated queen and get them sent to you in the post

went i ran 20 hives i had one x double brood Carnie hive that i use to provide the feedstock for any beginners nuc, they breed like rabbitts in May and i farm them for workers not honey

so i just add a my own mated calm queens to a frames of carnies in late May/june and the beginer in 6-8 weeks has a Nuc with no carnie bees just my donated calm queen's bees

 

[chycarne]

MM, Darn you guessed some of my stratagy the swarm is our base bunch of bees to get added to, (or supplying workers for) you are right queens would be cheaper and easier but the reason for the nucs is simply a numbers game, we are only really planning on getting to 10 (14 is a if we can and we would love to) this year but with a range of hives to work from it will (I think) be easier to triple up next year without any accident over autumn and with an emergency reserve in hand - painfull lesson learned from this year when I was a bit of a smart arse and used our reserve- following heart not head... and that was a pain to solve for several months (well three anyway) thank you for your support and interest, I will post results and efforts. the ideas you have written about above does a lot for my ego and hope at least we were thinking in the right direction... not sure the yare carnies but they build up pretty darn quick and are keen little beasties

 

[mbc]

If West Wales natives interest you, pm me in the spring.
I'd have thought our climates are about the closest you'd get in the uk but you might have it a bit warmer

 

[jameskilty]

Hello I am based near Helston and have some nucs for sale. Where is Chycarne - it sounds familiar.
They will be all blacks, and from a programme to breed some varroa reduction characters into the bees.
Contact me at [email protected]. See my web pages for what we are trying to do.

 

[jameskilty]

I should add that I believe it best to breed from the best of local bees. If yoiu want to join our programme (Cornwall Bee Improvement and Bee Breeders Group) we can exchange breeding material, so if you take a graft or several and rear nucs where you are, you will maintain and add to your local gene pool. Or, take a few of your best reared queens and mate them over here. Otherwise you'll find my nucs are excellent for the area and regularly outperform any imports! They are largely, genetically, A.m.m. until proven otherwise!

 

[RoofTops]

If you want to keep costs down buy virgin queens from your chosen supplier. Mate them locally and from these you will get drones with the same DNA as the queens themselves. If you flood the area with these drones (I know someone who bought 100 virgin queens to do this) you will be able to have good control over who your chosen queens mate with.

You probably need to buy the virgin queens the year before you need their drones so they are well established and drone rearing can start early the following season.

Just make certain you keep records and know which are the queens to breed from and which not - i.e. the drone raising queens!