Bee Spacing for Frames (and Nosema?)

[TooBee...]

Hi

I was reading about Bee Diseases and eventually came to this website,
http://www.bushfarms.com/beespests.htm#afb
which whenever you get down to the first paragraph for the sub-heading "Nosema" makes reference to "research done in Russia in the 70's has shown that natural spacing (1 1/4" or 32mm instead of the standard 1 3/8" or 35mm) reduces the incidence of Nosema"

So two questions;
1. Has anyone heard of this claim and / or what do you think of it?
2. What spacings does everyone here use and why (a Poll might be interesting)?
3. Chances of us even finding this "research" is negligible, but ... does anyone know of it ... yes, I know it'll be in Russian, but maybe Google Translate can help, or maybe it has been referenced elsewhere in another article.

I have emailed the website to see if they can give me more info. in the "research".

 

[Finman]

.
Tupla
.

 

[Finman]

I.
Michael Bush has so much his natural claims, that it is difficult to count.
.
And in that nosema text where he claims, that sugar syrup feeding makes hives sick....not in this planet... Sugar has energy and pollen gives other nutrition of bees.

 

[foghornleghorn]

Made my own frames a few years ago and the spacing worked out at 32mm. Apart from an extra frame in the box and a much flatter comb didn't notice any difference

 

[Finman]

. Apart from an extra frame in the box and a much flatter comb didn't notice any difference

How about then when you use those combs as honey combs?

I use standard dimensions. When the goal is to produce much honey, different dimensions do not make more nectar on fields.
.
When we speak about diseases, I trust on university researchers' reports. MAAREC's reports are good. Bee diseases are older than a human. Remember that.
.

 

[eltalia]

@TooBee
Erin ga braugh applied it is prudent when reading Michael to embrace
the context as, usually, the work includes his own work beyond the use
of research essays he is so fond of paraphrasing.
In the instance you point to Michael includes what is known as the trigger
for any a colony ailment - stressed bees are vulnerable.
Thus, again the basic rule is proven, run strong vibrant colonies maintaining
critical mass (CM) to not be presented with a probem on rambling through a
nesting core. Nursing bees along hoping they right themselves is a path only
for the most adventureous in pushing boundries.

Maintaining a 32mm topbar ear width - as I do these days - results in
clean topbars and natural beespace, with the advantage of manually
adjusting the space in whatever box - or frame position in TBH colonies -
to achieve whatever comb width one desires. Oddly enough the 38mm
'standard' ears when left to beedoings often results in masses of bridging
comb at the topbar if one increases the space between ears. That has to create
air circulation difficulties and inhibit housecleaning so maybe there
are two elements of stress impacts on an otherwise healthy colony.

One aspect of diligent research for the newbee to consider is that pretty much
all claims found in "studies" can be fact checked in your own backyard. So often
it is more productive to just go do it to prove what
is read. In more decades than I care to recall bees have always sorted
fact from rhetorical iteration of "I think" or "it could be".
That said... what is written in stone will create success for the newbee
if implemented.

Bill

 

[Finman]

. Apart from an extra frame in the box and a much flatter comb didn't notice any difference

How about then when you use those combs as honey combs?

I use standard dimensions. When the goal is to produce much honey, different dimensions do not make more nectar on fields.
.
When we speak about diseases, I trust on university researchers' reports. MAAREC's reports are good. Bee diseases are older than a human. Remember that.
.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Bee diseases are older than a human. Remember that.
.

What are the bee diseases that are older than a human?

 

[B+.]

What are the bee diseases that are older than a human?

I should think they all are.... except, possibly, Finman.

 

[Finman]

What are the bee diseases that are older than a human?

Think. At least they are not evolved from sugar feeding or from frame spacing.
For example nosema lives in foxes and silk worms.
.

 

[Finman]

I should think they all are.... except, possibly, Finman.

Such intelligent poking....
.

 

[B+.]

Such intelligent poking....
.

It's good to see that you recognise it as a joke with no serious offence intended.

 

[Michael Palmer]

Apart from an extra frame in the box and a much flatter comb didn't notice any difference

Of course. Shaving down the frames and adding an extra isn't going to do anything but add another comb. There won't be another comb of brood. There won't be any more stores. And...

My hives all have 9 combs in a 10 frame langstroth. According to Bush then, my bees should be sick with nosema. Not. Many apiaries haven't enough nosema to find spores, and some have a very low spore counts.

 

[TooBee...]

So it is possible to reduce the spacing down to 32mm without any immediate negative effects, the issue of the Nosema would be more difficult to determine... certainly without that "research".

However doesn't 32mm spacing increase contact rates (congestion) amongst the bees, increasing their perceived density within the hive, which is a major determining factor in Drone production and reproduction (meaning swarming), ref. below article,

http://jeb.biologists.org/content/220/9/1597

"Conclusions

The experimental study found that worker bees responded to an increase in worker density by producing more drone comb in preparation for reproduction... Therefore, the observational study found contact rate to be the most likely indicator of colony density for honey bees.

...For a honey bee colony, workers evidently use density to sense group size. The underlying cue of worker density remains uncertain, but presumably it is a physical cue related to worker movement... a honey bee colony, evidently relies on physical cues to sense group size."

 

[Finman]

.
Bees and races are a little bit different size. Modern dimensions and foundation size is a compromise, where all bees and hybrids can be nursed.

It is really strange that cell size and frame dimensions can heal diseases. Bees have 32 pest and diseases. I can see that famous beekeepers do not even know recent methods what to do to diseases, and then they offer what ever tricks what they meet.

.
One Russian medicine for human...... Take dead bees from hive floor after winter and cook them in strong vodka. Enjoy!

 

[TooBee...]

.One Russian medicine for human...... Take dead bees from hive floor after winter and cook them in strong vodka. Enjoy!

Yes, I had heard of that Russian medicine as well! Although I don't remember anything about cooking them? Remember ancient cultures ate bee brood as well as the honey around the brood, and it has been pointed out that bears eat the honey and brood as they want the high protein brood... don't know if they'd like the vodka though!

 

[Hivemaker.]

Of course. Shaving down the frames and adding an extra isn't going to do anything but add another comb. There won't be another comb of brood. There won't be any more stores. And...

I agree Mike, there would be less room for stores in the narrow spacing.

 

[Finman]

.
IT is not long time ago, when specialists said that when Nosema ceranea arrives, it kills all hives from apiary. Ok, it arrived and no more hives died.

.

 

[TooBee...]

I agree Mike, there would be less room for stores in the narrow spacing.

I'm showing my ignorance here ... but why would there be "less room for stores", surely there would be more room for stores as there is an extra frame of comb, all that is being reduced is the space between the frames, and a bit less room for the bees to move around in; from the photos that I've seen of wild hives, their comb seems to have less space between their combs than our domestic wooden framed bees.

 

[Finman]

I'm showing my ignorance here ... but why would there be "less room for stores", surely there would be more room for stores as there is an extra frame of comb, all that is being reduced is the space between the frames, and a bit less room for the bees to move around in; from the photos that I've seen of wild hives, their comb seems to have less space between their combs than our domestic wooden framed bees.

At least less food stores over Winter. But why to change? The reason?

When a hive needs more space then it needs one box or two. One frame does not help.

2/3 of frames are for honey or nectar, and narrow frames do not help in honey harvesting. I take one frame off from honey boxes.

But if you do, do it.

.