Bee space

[Do224]

I’m pretty sure my hives are bottom bee space. They’re nationals and the frames are flush with the top of the bb.

But if I use a wired, wooden queen excluder doesn’t that create a bee space at the top also? Whereas a plastic or sheet metal excluder would sit directly on the top bars...

Also, the bottom bee space that I understand to be under the frames isn’t actually a bee space is it (that is, it’s not 4.5-9mm)? The bees are able to draw another inch or so of wax under the bottom of the frames. Why is the gap so big and not just a bee space?

 

[Boston Bees]

I’m pretty sure my hives are bottom bee space. They’re nationals and the frames are flush with the top of the bb.

Sounds right

But if I use a wired, wooden queen excluder doesn’t that create a bee space at the top also? Whereas a plastic or sheet metal excluder would sit directly on the top bars...

Yes, but this is fine. It means you can put the excluder on easily without crushing bees on the top bars.

A lot of people use framed perspex crownboards, which also create a beespace above the top box. This is also fine - just gives the bees room to move around above the frames.

Also, the bottom bee space that I understand to be under the frames isn’t actually a bee space is it (that is, it’s not 4.5-9mm)? The bees are able to draw another inch or so of wax under the bottom of the frames. Why is the gap so big and not just a bee space?

This is only the case with the space between the frames in the bottom box, and the floor, because the floor has some depth to it itself. If you stack boxes on top of each other (e.g. super on a brood box, or brood box on a brood box) then the space between tjhe frames in them is just a single bee space. Or should be!

 

[Do224]

So as long as there is a bee space at either the top or bottom it’s all good then....and you can also run a top and bottom bee space simultaneously by the sound of it. Isn’t it more efficient for the bees to have both a top and bottom bee space? Means they can move around the frames quicker.

With regards to the larger than necessary gap under the frames...can this just be thought of as a bit of a design fault then? Would a normal bee space gap of day 7mm be better in reality?

 

[Curly green finger's]

So as long as there is a bee space at either the top or bottom it’s all good then....and you can also run a top and bottom bee space simultaneously by the sound of it. Isn’t it more efficient for the bees to have both a top and bottom bee space? Means they can move around the frames quicker.

With regards to the larger than necessary gap under the frames...can this just be thought of as a bit of a design fault then? Would a normal bee space gap of day 7mm be better in reality?

The extra space is also used for drone brood if there was just the 7mm gap frames would be brased to the floor it sometimes happens anyway with the odd frame.

 

[Erichalfbee]

With regards to the larger than necessary gap under the frames...can this just be thought of as a bit of a design fault then? Would a normal bee space gap of day 7mm be better in reality?

My floors are quite deep. I have never seen brace comb under the frames. Perhaps it’s because of the mesh floor. I’ve only just started using solid floors so can’t comment.
I don’t like too much brace comb on top, yes it’s ok to just scrape it off but if it’s substantial and sticks one box to another the queen may be there when you separate the boxes. Why make trouble for yourself.

 

[Boston Bees]

So as long as there is a bee space at either the top or bottom it’s all good then....and you can also run a top and bottom bee space simultaneously by the sound of it.

Woooooaaaahhhh there cowboy

You can't be saying things like that on here without providing a trigger warning to the older pedantic types. They'll jump down your throat.

We are simply talking about having a queen excluder (or coverboard) on which provides a space above the frames. That is NOT the same thing as running a top beespace box along with a bottom beespace box.

If you put a TBS box above a BBS box you will have no space between the frames, and crushed bees.

But yes, if you simply mean that it's fine for a box to have room both above and below the frames, of course it is, yes, as long as it doesn't create a double-beespace (or zero-beespace) somewhere else in the stack.

With any "extra" you buy, like a queen excluder, do always have a look at it to see how large the beespace is on either side. Some of the badly designed ones have a beespace on one side (fine) but a far larger space on the other side (not fine). Ideally, with national hives, if using a framed QEx, you want one with a beespace on one side (this will be the bottom side) and hardly any space at all on the other (the top side). Or you can just buy a non-framed one and be careful when you put it on.

With regards to the larger than necessary gap under the frames...can this just be thought of as a bit of a design fault then?

In a way, yes, it can. If the floor is very deep, and the hive runs out of space, they will build a cm (or more) of comb under the frames. That can be a right pain as it means you have to scrape it off if you want to move that frame into an upper box, for example.