Bee honest…did you inspect this weekend?

[Do224]

Please can someone explain what the harm would have been? The weather was much better than many summer days when I have done an inspection for swarm cells. The bees were very active. For those of us with few hives (so losing one is significant) and less experience of judging stores by weight, having a look to check the amount and location of stores might be better than feeding 'just in case' and then potentially reducing space for brood. Are people worried there aren't enough bees to get the brood nest temperature back up after opening?

I think the main concern is that you could accidentally kill the queen at a time when you can’t get a new one.

But you have a valid counter argument for opening up to take a look if you’re still getting the hang of hefting. After all, how often do we accidentally kill a queen during inspections…

 

[Sutty]

I think the main concern is that you could accidentally kill the queen at a time when you can’t get a new one.

But you have a valid counter argument for opening up to take a look if you’re still getting the hang of hefting. After all, how often do we accidentally kill a queen during inspections…

It's pretty rare to kill a queen if you handle frames gently, though i have had one drop/fly off a frame and be lost - I saw her disappear through a gap at the side of a sidebar, turned the frame around and she was gone. I hoped she had dropped into the hive but EQCs a few days later.
Another "risk" is breaking all the propolis seals just before another cold snap, thereby making it harder for them, however when doing a winter vape I've seen that they are not always that well sealed anyway.

 

[Penninetrader]

It

Please can someone explain what the harm would have been? The weather was much better than many summer days when I have done an inspection for swarm cells. The bees were very active. For those of us with few hives (so losing one is significant) and less experience of judging stores by weight, having a look to check the amount and location of stores might be better than feeding 'just in case' and then potentially reducing space for brood. Are people worried there aren't enough bees to get the brood nest temperature back up after opening?

It goes back to the judgement based on your own circumstance and you make a good case for your reasoning,again we each do our best.

 

[North End Bees]

After all, how often do we accidentally kill a queen during inspections…

Randy Oliver says he doesn't let beginners do inspections on their own in his apiaries till they've been there a full season. Apparently his queen loss after beginners inspected was 50%

 

[Sutty]

Randy Oliver says he doesn't let beginners do inspections on their own in his apiaries till they've been there a full season. Apparently his queen loss after beginners inspected was 50%

If that's true (and I struggle with it) I wonder if they are all using very thick heavy gloves, making them clumsy?

 

[North End Bees]

Couldn't find the original source where he quoted 50% but did find this one where he quotes 25% of queens killed by beginners' inspections.
The clip is at 51.09

 

[Do224]

Randy Oliver says he doesn't let beginners do inspections on their own in his apiaries till they've been there a full season. Apparently his queen loss after beginners inspected was 50%

I think that’s highly unlikely unless they were handling the queen for marking/clipping perhaps.

If the odds of killing a queen were 50% during a season of normal inspections, it suggests that all the bees in the hive face similar odds of an untimely demise…there would soon be no bees left!

 

[North End Bees]

I think that’s highly unlikely unless they were handling the queen for marking/clipping perhaps.

Are you calling Randy a liar??

Well I couldn't find the talk where he said 50%, too many to look through and I might have misremembered it.

But do you not think the 25% is shocking enough?!

 

[Martimart]

Are you calling Randy a liar??

Well I couldn't find the talk where he said 50%, too many to look through and I might have misremembered it.

But do you not think the 25% is shocking enough?!

I think Randy is a Liar. I think when you first get your Bee's as a new beekeeper, more often than not you've bought a package or a Nuc, either way for the first season your Hive's are not going to be bursting at the seams, also from my experience as a new beekeeper your extremely slow and steady when doing a inspection.

 

[SWEET]

RO is not making things up, over the decades he has probably stood with 1000's of beginners and has the data stashed.

 

[rolande]

I think Randy is a Liar. I think when you first get your Bee's as a new beekeeper, more often than not you've bought a package or a Nuc, either way for the first season your Hive's are not going to be bursting at the seams, also from my experience as a new beekeeper your extremely slow and steady when doing a inspection.

Slow also, unavoidably, means that the hive is open far longer than it needs to be so increasing the 'danger' period considerably.

As for calling a respected beekeeper (who's doing a lot for beekeeping in general) a liar that really isn't a good look. At the very least a simple courtesy would have been to email him first and ask, politely, for him to discuss his thoughts on the subject.

 

[North End Bees]

RO is not making things up, over the decades he has probably stood with 1000's of beginners and has the data stashed.

Definitely. You only need the briefest look at his website to get an idea of how much data he's been compiling over the decades.

Not only the huge amount he's compiled from his own apiaries but also the many scientific studies he's sponsored over this time. E.g a few years ago he funded Steve Martin to do a large scale analysis into varroa resistance.
He collects the data and we all benefit for free.

 

[Do224]

Are you calling Randy a liar??

No, I’m not. I think 25% could well be possible if we’re talking about beginners having a go at queen marking/clipping over the course of a season.

But we’re talking about just a cursory look at a few frames to establish stores for someone who hasn’t got the hang of hefting.

Don’t put words in my mouth.

 

[Penninetrader]

The observation regarding heat or cold stressed queens in transport, that those stressed seriously underperformed those not stressed. That would go some way to explain the variables beeks experience when buying in queens, speed of transport, weather conditions and more could be more of a factor than previously thought.

 

[North End Bees]

Don’t put words in my mouth.

I wasn't. Hence the smiley

 

[North End Bees]

But we’re talking about just a cursory look at a few frames to establish stores for someone who hasn’t got the hang of hefting.

Although you did originally say during inspections...

After all, how often do we accidentally kill a queen during inspections…

 

[Parsonage Bees]

Please can someone explain what the harm would have been? The weather was much better than many summer days when I have done an inspection for swarm cells. The bees were very active. For those of us with few hives (so losing one is significant) and less experience of judging stores by weight, having a look to check the amount and location of stores might be better than feeding 'just in case' and then potentially reducing space for brood. Are people worried there aren't enough bees to get the brood nest temperature back up after opening?

I thought the reason NOT to do a full inspection, going through the brood nest, was because the population is reaching it's minimum and we still have some cold nights (wasn't there a -7degC last week?). If you discover a weak colony you might push them into dying off.
It's what Randy Oliver calls the 'spring turnover'. Winter bees are dying off and new bees are still building up. This chart not relevant to UK. I'd think the minimum would be about now, mid to late March.

 

[Do224]

Although you did originally say during inspections...

I was pretty clear with what I said and I stand by it

 

[Penninetrader]

I thought the reason NOT to do a full inspection, going through the brood nest, was because the population is reaching it's minimum and we still have some cold nights (wasn't there a -7degC last week?). If you discover a weak colony you might push them into dying off.
It's what Randy Oliver calls the 'spring turnover'. Winter bees are dying off and new bees are still building up. This chart not relevant to UK. I'd think the minimum would be about now, mid to late March.

View attachment 42281

 

[Penninetrader]

Without the advantage of such graphs etc. I personally feel this to be a critical time and to allow the bees to do their thing with least disturbance, good home, food and leave the rest to them. If I might add, today the weather is horrible and not a bee in sight and I don't blame them, but yesterday for a short period they were busy and some orientation or clearing flights. It came to my mind that observing orientation flights are a perfect look inside the hive without opening, the numbers of bees taking the flights and frequency a very good indicator of health and brood production.