BBKA matchsticks for basics?

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Tremyfro

Queen Bee
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Vale of Glamorgan
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Possibly...5 and a bit...depends on the bees.
Apparently....the BBKA basic notes recommend you use matchsticks around the edge of the roof and block off holes in the cover board.
I have seen matchstick jokes here and wonder what is actually the real answer...or is it only opinion?
 
Oh is it time for the matchstick debate already? My how time flies!

I'm guessing you won't find one supporter of matchstick use on this forum - well not on open forum. There may be some closet matchstick men and cats and dogs.
 
Apparently....the BBKA basic notes recommend you use matchsticks ...

Sorry, but I suspect that you are referring to the Yates' notes, as I don't believe the BBKA have offered any.


If you search the forum for Yates, you'll discover that the Yates's are considered a bit opinionated and quirky, not 100% factually accurate or up-to-date, but useful for the Modules as the only point-by-point full (well, full-ish) discussion of the syllabus that is in print. (The Mid-Bucks notes are useful too, though far from comprehensive, and sadly don't seem to have ever been updated.)
The opinionated nature of some of the comments does also provoke thought as to why that might not be the current, majority or universal opinion. Which is useful as a challenge, rather than a crib sheet.

While I know that the Yates's have published Study Notes for the Basic (as well as every other BBKA exam or Assessment) - I haven't seen their notes on the Basic, so I'm presuming that they are in the same style as every other title of theirs that I've seen.
It wouldn't surprise me to learn that they were in the matchsticks camp.

The Yates's Study Notes are in no way endorsed by the BBKA ... rather the opposite.
 
I'm guessing you won't find one supporter of matchstick use on this forum - well not on open forum. There may be some closet matchstick men and cats and dogs.

But only where there are kids on the corner of the street that are sparking clogs.

Happy days : )
 
Apparently....the BBKA basic notes recommend you use matchsticks around the edge of the roof and block off holes in the cover board.
I have seen matchstick jokes here and wonder what is actually the real answer...or is it only opinion?

"When I did my basic" is one up from "when I did a course".

Yates a once time neighbor wrote the notes from a 50's pre varroa viewpoint when solid floor were the norm and men wore hats as did women when attending Church on Sundays.
The misconceived idea that bees needed good ventilation by lifting the crownboard was quite prevalent back then.... as was the same misconception that our Native black bee was extinct,
All this when Brother Adam was President of the Devon Beekeepers Association and the True Buckfast bee was the only right and proper bee to keep... for gentlemen at least!

I was having my first language ( Welsh) thoroughly beaten out of me at a London East End slum clearance school back then... how times change... my Granddaughter is positively encouraged to speak it!

Yeghes da
 
Oh is it time for the matchstick debate already? My how time flies!

I'm guessing you won't find one supporter of matchstick use on this forum - well not on open forum. There may be some closet matchstick men and cats and dogs.

:icon_204-2::icon_204-2::icon_204-2:
 
Apparently....the BBKA basic notes recommend you use matchsticks around the edge of the roof and block off holes in the cover board.
I have seen matchstick jokes here and wonder what is actually the real answer...or is it only opinion?

its all down to mosquitoes and a man in Wisconsin
 
Apparently....the BBKA basic notes recommend you use matchsticks around the edge of the roof and block off holes in the cover board.
I have seen matchstick jokes here and wonder what is actually the real answer...or is it only opinion?

It's really difficult to fail the Basic, it's only an assessment of what a new beekeeper has learned in their first complete year of beekeeping and acknowledges that they have learned the 'basic' stuff and are near enough independent beekeepers.

If your answer to one of the questions is something the assessor doesn't expect to hear then they may ask you why, and it can lead to an interesting discussion. Something like that isn't likely to make you fail, and may even mean the assessor learns something new.

It's probably better to download the syllabus from the B8KA site and then do an internet search for up to date information. The Mid Bucks notes are good - they were compiled by a study group so will have gaps, but these can be filled checking several beekeeping blogs. Read as widely as you can, absorb what you agree with, and disregard the rest.
 
Apparently....the BBKA basic notes recommend you use matchsticks around the edge of the roof and block off holes in the cover board.
I have seen matchstick jokes here and wonder what is actually the real answer...or is it only opinion?
Are you going to take the basic ?
 
Would you care to explain why you believe this is the case?

It would take an article to go into it properly.
In the UK we changed to a high winter stores ventilation regime from August 1941 in response to wood import and woodworker shortage as these were needed elsewhere ( e.g. Dehavilland Mosquito )
In the U.S. It was down to lobbying by C. L. Farrar ( U. Wisconsin)
 
Are you going to take the basic ?

No......I was talking to someone who asked me about it. I am never taking any exams ever again....spent my life doing that. Happy to do courses though...and research. It's a hobby...I am not interested in turning it into business. I don't need to pass tests to show what I have learnt.
One of the things I most like about beekeeping is that so much of it is hearsay, anecdotal and the result of trial and error. It makes it a personal journey instead of a classroom/pupil/instructor pathway. Beekeeping isn't led by academics but by a mixture of people from all walks of life....some with the zeal for making money from beekeeping...some for the challenge of beekeeping ....but all of them for the timeless reward of a job well done.
 
In the UK we changed to a high winter stores ventilation regime from August 1941 in response to wood import and woodworker shortage as these were needed elsewhere ( e.g. Dehavilland Mosquito )

As you're obviously not suggesting that the use of matchstick ventilation doesn't predate 1941 by several decades could you at least give some information on your thinking?
 
To the OP question.

For anyone using OMFs, any further ventilation is unnecessary and downright stupidity.

The old problem was that of damp, found in hives in spring. The old adage that ''damp, not cold, kills bees'' was deemed appropriate and the best way to dry out the hive was to lose the moisture through the roof inthose days.

Warre recognised this problem many years ago and applied a sensible solution which had two very pertinent advantages, one of which is never really given much attention. His design was for a large box with low gas permeability, but nevertheless some air flow, which allowed the moist air to escape in a very gentle way, some getting trapped in the sawdust/straw or whatever the roof filling was made of. That was the solution for internal dampness.

The other advantage was simply that of insulation. The relatively large box (with low gas permeability) was a wonderful top insulation layer similar to the top insulation advocated by some of us on this forum. Yes, that was one reason why Warre system worked for over-wintering.

Yet here we are in the 21st century with some beeks advocating no top insulation and providing a through draught all winter! At least the matchsticks generally mean a flow around the edges of the hive and not a howling through-draught passing close to the cluster and creating survival issues for the bees. Yes, they are good at surviving, but will use far more stores (heat energy) and are likely to lose more bees, which fall from the edges of the cluster and perish.

So, with OMFs which, in all honesty, provide far more ventilation than necessary to keep the hive dry, no further ventilation is warranted. Indeed, the bottom ventilation could be greatly reduced for OMF installations.

I use ''matchsticks'' under the brood box (so bottom ventilation) if I need to over-winter a colony in a hive with solid floor. It works - I can assure you of that! No condensation with no draughts removing warmth from the upper levels in the hive.

Matchsticks providing ventilation above the cluster are not required and rarely add any useful benefit for the bees. It is generally inflicted on the colony after the point when the colony can effect their own fix - that of propolising any small gaps - before the onset of winter, to ameliorate the stupidity of their keepers.

I had a couple of winters with damp frames and/or too much top ventilation; I then changed to OMFs and no top ventilation (along with top insulation as an obvious progression). No problems whatsoever since then; I sometimes reduce the bottom ventilation and I do use the extra deep frames (which must be better than deeps).

This system works for me in our climate conditions. Clearly it would not be optimal in all cilmates, but matchsticks making air leaks above the cluster is a definite no-no for me.

Matchsticks used to be a poor fix for another problem (damp and mouldy frames in winter and spring) and, as such, has no place in modern beekeeping. Unnecessary, unproductive, against the wishes of the bees to give just three reasons, and so totally out of place in these days. But there will always be dinosaur beekeepers - and some of them will be trying to perpetuate their lousy beekeeping practices by insisting that this old, out-dated, unnecessary infliction on the bees is still the way to go, by brainwashing the new beeks in their section (and elsewhere). Go figure! These 'dinosaur' beekeepers don't actually think for themselves, just expect the next generation to blindly follow their poor practice and keep their heads firmly stuck in the sand!

RAB
 
Oh thank you ...what a fab reply from RAB. I hadn't considered using any top ventilation....I was just asked about the matchstick thing. In fact...I have spent some considerable amount of time ensuring my long hives are well insulated and draught free. I am just waiting for the digital temperature and humidity gadgets which I am going to use for monitoring this winter. I am undecided which hives to use as yet...but I thought to use one in a long hive and one in a jumbo poly hive.
 
I'm with RAB 100%.

I'd like a painting with matchstick men to hang in our hall.. It would contrast with the Matisse and the Turners.
 
As you're obviously not suggesting that the use of matchstick ventilation doesn't predate 1941 by several decades could you at least give some information on your thinking?

Prior to ww2 keeping the bees warm was the dominant tactic in beekeeping,
After ww2 it had changed on both sides of the Atlantic, but for different reasons.
The higher heat expenditure and water generated made the perceived need for ventilation greater. come the national hive the matchstick comes to the fore

I have done considerable research on the early to mid 20th century UK and U.S. bee publications on this subject, thanks to the h. B. A. Library.
 
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It would take an article to go into it properly.
In the UK we changed to a high winter stores ventilation regime from August 1941 in response to wood import and woodworker shortage as these were needed elsewhere ( e.g. Dehavilland Mosquito )
In the U.S. It was down to lobbying by C. L. Farrar ( U. Wisconsin)

And then in circa 2000, we made a 17" square hole in the floor of hives and covered them with mesh and none of the matchstick brigade thought to change any of their other practices of these new fangle OMF hives
 
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Oh thank you ...what a fab reply from RAB. I hadn't considered using any top ventilation....I was just asked about the matchstick thing. In fact...I have spent some considerable amount of time ensuring my long hives are well insulated and draught free. I am just waiting for the digital temperature and humidity gadgets which I am going to use for monitoring this winter. I am undecided which hives to use as yet...but I thought to use one in a long hive and one in a jumbo poly hive.

Get a wet & dry thermometer that has bee calibrated to the NPL standard + the Psychrometric charts ( calibrated at sea level barometric pressure 101.325 kPa) you may need to adjust for your altitude.
you will also need a calibrated mercury in glass thermometer.
Then you can calibrate your digital RH METER and Thermometer.

Do not waste money on the cheap £1-50p ones on eBay.. search out digital RH meters.. cost around £25 to £100 for anything like accurate digital thermometers a little cheaper.

I use a quilt made from alpacca wool that has been felted, works as a condensor... in fact similar to the preWW2 ones used universally on WBC's hives.

As you see I did not waste my time looking out of the window in Science..... now how about an acoustic flask for very accurate measurements of heat!

Yeghes da
 

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