BBKA holds old dears to ransom!

[Poly Hive]

Some do. Believe it.

PH

 

[rae]

Well, the "Health" section of the Natural Beekeeping Trust site is pretty empty with regard to varroa strategies. It does, of course, mention mobile phone masts which in my book is a sure sign of the tin foil hat brigade.

So lets get down to specifics:

- You leave the bees alone so that they swarm. OK, your call, hopefully you don't have neighbours nearby. This isn't a big deal, apart from the fact that an artificial swarm has a far higher success rate in terms of not allowing the bees to die.

- Varroa. What exactly do you do about it? If you have no chemicals (is icing sugar a chemical) and you don't open the hives.....how do you know if the bees have varroa, and how do you treat if they do?

 

[Brosville]

Ok, I'll knock the levity on the head and shoot from the hip - there has been the most appalling lack of good manners towards a new member that I think I've ever witnessed on any forum - the lady came here to talk in a rational manner about her "take" on beekeeping, and has received an arrogant, ill-informed and wholly ignorant trashing in return....
I don't doubt that Heidi and I may well differ on many things (I would guess she has connections with Biodynamics and Rudolf Steiner - about which I have known since the 1960's), but I'm quite happy to discuss rationally and politely with her.
If you have any doubt as to her sincerity and bee-handling capabilities, I suggest you seek out the videos of her handling swarms - I watched open-mouthed when I found them this afternoon.....
You've probably driven her away, and it is YOUR loss..........

 

[freckledbeck]

Obviously my knowledge is very limited as I have just started keeping bees, but one of the reasons I love this forum is because of the diverse range of advice and opinions given on here.
Anyone starting out can find info on practically anything.... and if they can't find it they can ask, which is a fantastic resource, but please lets not be so hostile towards each other.
As Roche says, its good to question, then use the advice that works for you.

 

[Poly Hive]

Actually I have known about Bio Dynamics since 1966, and Rudolph Steiner since the same time. I have worked at Camphill and Newton Dee if that rings any bells Bros?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camphill_Movement

Their bees swarmed uncontrollably by the way.

As for manners. I do not think I have been in the least rude nor any one else.

I reserve the right to debate.

PH

 

[Brosville]

Since Heidi arrived she has been accused of being a troll, and the suggestion made that she and other "natural beekeepers" are essentially anti-social nutters who should be marched off somewhere unpleasant - by all means disagree with her methods (preferably from a position of knowledge of precisely WHAT she stands for), but don't attack her like the very worst sort of school bullies - "she's different, let's get her".......
ALL shades of opinion should be able to be discussed - by all means disagree with ideas, but this has got far too "personal" - and to be frank, ungallant - I would guess English is not her first language, and she still had the decency to make the effort, and in return............

 

[Brosville]

ps, who says "control" is actually the best way with swarms?- had you given her a chance she'd probably have explained other ways........

 

[Poly Hive]

Now Bros you are getting emotive again. Who said march off somewhere unpleasant? That to me alluded to extermination in concentration camps. No one.

I tell you of some of my back ground and not a nod to acknowledge it. Fair enough.

I like facts not emotions.

The lady has said she is a beginner, again fair enough. And so a beginner is going to advise us on how to not control the swarming instinct?

But please do not tell me natural is best. Because if you do I will debate robustly. I had enough of that with another person who runs a site you seem to prefer.

Lets be honest.

PH

 

[Chris Luck]

Oh dear me, I've just come in from a long walk and this it what I find, people being rude and obnoxious to others as if they and only they know all the answers, what a sad place this appears to be.

Hmmm, back later, bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Chris

 

[BKF Admin]

what a sad place this appears to be.

Chris

Thats not fair,some posts do go to far at times in this thread but at least its running.

The forum rules do state that you must kick the ball NOT the player and at times the rules are breached.

Sometimes things do have to get a little heated though for everyone to put their point across.

To call the forum a sad place is not right though.

 

[Mike a]

Thats not fare,some posts do go to far at times in this thread but at least its running.

The forum rules do state that you must kick the ball NOT the player and at times the rules are breached.

Sometimes things do have to get a little heated though for everyone to put their point across.

To call the forum a sad place is not right though.

Oh great !!
The one place I thought I could get away from all the ^&$! and talk about what dominated the tv for the last few weeks and Admin goes and ruins it by dropping a football related analogy

 

[Nellie]

This was my first post and I phrased what I said carefully; I expect the same care be applied in reading it. I spole of "certain" associations, and I object to the use of the term "simplistic" by a certain education officer named Neil. Do you just like argueing? Brosville, jointed by myself, were inviting discussion on husbandry. I have no interest in facetiousness whatsoever.
And as for who I am, well, that is a little difficult to answer. I manage to have healthy bees and my relationsip with them is superb. They are also superbly healthy.
With very good wishes to you,
Heidi

When it comes to being continually portrayed as the "enemy" of bees and beekeeping then you'd better believe I like arguing. Not countering the crap that is continually spouted about beekeeping and associations by some quarters is to give credence to that point of view.

The view is simplistic, I direct you to your own website:

Modern beekeeping, like intensive farming, is geared at maximum production and results in exploitation.

Poppycock. I can point to in the direction of some beekeepers to whom that description absolutely applies for sure. The vast majority however don't fit that description at all and it's simplistic statements like this that I object to.

As for asking who you were, you suggested that people might like to invite you round to come talk to their association (and I am looking for speakers for our winter programme funnily enough) and as the link to your organisation had been removed there was no indication whatsoever as to why I might like to consider you. What's your background? What studies have you carried out? Have they been published anywhere? And I'm not being facetious, I'm trying to put together a winter programme at the moment and as "Natural" beekeeping is in focus at the moment it has been something that I've been looking into but it's been difficult so far finding anyone who's got much background in bees or beekeeping or has any hard information to back up their assertions.

You'll get no argument from me that there are aspects of beekeeping and husbandry practice that could be improved. Any beehive whether a national or the "natural" beekeeper's favourite Warré is a compromise between the needs of the bee and the convenience of the beekeeper and I think you'll be hard pushed to find any beekeeper willing to stand up and assert that a standard box hive of any type is the perfect balance between the two.

 

[BKF Admin]

Nellie,have you asked Phil Chandler(Biobees website) to give a lecture on TBH/Natural beekeeping ?

He was an apprentice to Brother Adam at Buckfast abbey so has good credentials.

 

[jimbeekeeper]

Oh great !!
The one place I thought I could get away from all the ^&$! and talk about what dominated the tv for the last few weeks and Admin goes and ruins it by dropping a football related analogy

Can we swap Admin for the Octopus? LOL

 

[Nellie]

Nellie,have you asked Phil Chandler(Biobees website) to give a lecture on TBH/Natural beekeeping ?

He was an apprentice to Brother Adam at Buckfast abbey so has good credentials.

I have, he was the first person that came to mind tell truth.

 

[Chris B]

Nellie,
having had responsibility for booking speakers from time to time, I would certainly give as much weight to somebody's reputation as an entertaining and engaging speaker than their credentials as a beekeeping expert. Not every good beekeeper has papers to their name.
If you can arrange a treble bill: Heidi, Hedgerow Pete, and Easy Mike, now that would be something worth travelling for!

 

[freckledbeck]

When it comes to being continually portrayed as the "enemy" of bees and beekeeping then you'd better believe I like arguing. Not countering the crap that is continually spouted about beekeeping and associations by some quarters is to give credence to that point of view.

I thought that Heidi's post was non confrontational and interesting, I honestly can't see where she has portrayed anyone as the 'enemy'of bees?!

Perhaps some beeks are a tad sensitive/defensive on the subject of 'natural' beekeeping?

I'm reading a 'Background to Beekeeping' by Allan C Waine at the moment, and a thread running through the book (so far at least) is disturb the bees as little as possible, and swarming is a natural instinct that it may be unhealthy to suppress........ and advantageous to the beek to exploit.
This book was first published in 1955 (yes, before varroa) and I'm sure people would describe Mr Waine as a 'conventional' beek, so when did attitudes change?

 

[victor meldrew]

I think this thread has changed from natural conventional to them and us .
This had to happen as the usual introduction of the natural brigade (rather than beekeepers who keep bees as naturally as possible) always adopt the high moral ground , like to pour scorn on beekeepers they see as dinosaurs and view anyone in beekeeping for 1/2 a century as pre historic!!
What causes the adverse reaction to their posts is the abrasive, accusative , we know better than you attitude , culminating in " listen to me, forget what you thought you knew about bees, I am going to re-educate you (that's if you are education-able ?).

As the man said "There is none so pious as the recently converted" and believe me , most of the natural brigade are just that, some of them haven't even been close up to a bee never mind had the pleasure of looking after a colony !

John Wilkinson

 

[Nellie]

Nellie,
having had responsibility for booking speakers from time to time, I would certainly give as much weight to somebody's reputation as an entertaining and engaging speaker than their credentials as a beekeeping expert. Not every good beekeeper has papers to their name.
If you can arrange a treble bill: Heidi, Hedgerow Pete, and Easy Mike, now that would be something worth travelling for!

Sure, but when I'm considering sticking someone up in front of bee inspectors, people involved in honey bee research and simply people who've been keeping bees longer than I've been alive, especially if they intend telling us we're doing it wrong, then I'd like to know that they've got some credentials to make that claim. That line up could recover any speakers fees in a second if we opened it up.

I thought that Heidi's post was non confrontational and interesting, I honestly can't see where she has portrayed anyone as the 'enemy'of bees?!

Perhaps some beeks are a tad sensitive/defensive on the subject of 'natural' beekeeping?

Have a look at the website, it's full of the usual anti beekeeping rubbish often spouted by some of the "natural" lot pushing their agenda. I don't have any problem with the majority of the natural beekeeping lot at all and would have started with a top bar hive myself if I hadn't needed a more suitable hive type for my first apiary. What I get defensive and sensitive about is the continual portrayal of All conventional beekeeping as somehow more dependent on chemicals (I see many natural beekeepers use exactly the same treatments as me (thymol and icing sugar), if they're fine in a top bar hive, why do they become "nasty chemicals" when applied to a national Hive?), less interested in the welfare of their bees and that we teach new beekeepers how best to stamp on their bees while twirling their moustaches.

I wish the admin hadn't removed the link to the site because it's that content of the website rather than Heidi's initial post that I'm mainly objecting to. I will say that there are points there that I agree with all the same but I'm fed up with this misguided sense of superiority and need to untruthfully rubbish what they see as the opposition all the time that makes it very difficult to take seriously.

 

[Hivemaker.]

As the man said "There is none so pious as the recently converted" and believe me , most of the natural brigade are just that, some of them haven't even been close up to a bee never mind had the pleasure of looking after a colony !

Quite right JW.....interesting to see how the never look in a colony bee owners deal with SHB,they won't of course,no more than they know if the colonys have afb..efb or any of a number of diseases.