Bald brood advice/ thoughts please

[Erichalfbee]

Crikey there’s a lot of it.
I definitely would change the queen.

 

[ericbeaumont]

Here's some more.

Seen a lot of bald and sac in our area this season and unless it's really bad I look the other way, and certainly would not shook swarm.

Last year one of thirteen had a shocking outbreak, but I got shot of the worst combs, put the rest in a nuc and requeened; fine now and it didn't go elsewhere.


There's both sac and bald in there and bees have been chewing down the larvae in an effort to get rid of them.

 

[Swarm]

Irregular brood as well, with larvae of different age/stage.

 

[Kaz]

All I could suggest is that, if they somehow make it through the winter and hang on long enough, you could requeen them, if there really are enough bees left to make it worth it. (Otherwise: waste of queen.)
I do sympathise with your newbie try-anything sentiment though. I briefly had one little colony inside a mosquito net in my bedroom once, when I couldn't protect them from wasps outside! (To no avail in the end - colony not viable.)

I just read out your post to my hubby but apparently the idea of bees in the bedroom crosses the line

 

[Kaz]

Irregular brood as well, with larvae of different age/stage.

Yes, the queen's still laying and the brood seems to be developing OK so maybe they will get through the winter OK and can still be saved

 

[masterBK]

I had several colonies with genetic bald brood a few years ago and can trace them all back all to queens reared from a particular colony (which was selected for Q rearing as it had several desirable characteristics . It persisted for several years in my stocks with one or two cases found each year but I have more or less selectively bred it out (although there are colonies of bald brood still persisting in the area belong to neighbouring beekeepers so I check my bees every year and replace queens as and when found) . Genetic Bald brood usually indicates a high level of inbreeding as I understand larvae need to be homozygous recessive for a particular allele or alleles of the gene. The larvae are thought to be unable to produce the capping pheromone or enough capping pheromone at the right time to trigger the workers to construct a wax cap over their cells. As this is the same pheromone that seems to attract Varroa to enter the cells just prior to capping, bald brood larvae don't seem to get Varroa ( I have looked and not found any yet) . Interestingly Bald brood is far more common these days of endemic varroa so perhaps there is selection pressure favouring this allele. It is rather strange seeing the heads and eyes of the soon to emerge workers "looking" at you.

 

[ericbeaumont]

This article on bald brood illustrates well (once you get past the wax moth explanation) the hygienic action of bees to uncap and chew dodgy larvae.

 

[Antipodes]

45 seconds??

 

[BugsInABox]

Here's some more.

Ok I see the sac brood but not the bald. Is it the perforations in the capings - I imagined total lack of cap. Couldn’t see any eyes.

 

[ericbeaumont]

Ok I see the sac brood but not the bald. Is it the perforations in the capings - I imagined total lack of cap. Couldn’t see any eyes.

The work is progressive so the perforations are variable, but once the cap is off removal starts with chewing of eyes and head and so on; it suggests a degree of hygienic behaviour, though that isn't unusual.

 

[Erichalfbee]

The work is progressive so the perforations are variable, but once the cap is off removal starts with chewing of eyes and head and so on; it suggests a degree of hygienic behaviour, though that isn't unusual.

I've had the odd patch of bald brood and I've never seen the larvae cannibalised

 

[elainemary]

I had several colonies with genetic bald brood a few years ago and can trace them all back all to queens reared from a particular colony (which was selected for Q rearing as it had several desirable characteristics . It persisted for several years in my stocks with one or two cases found each year but I have more or less selectively bred it out (although there are colonies of bald brood still persisting in the area belong to neighbouring beekeepers so I check my bees every year and replace queens as and when found) . Genetic Bald brood usually indicates a high level of inbreeding as I understand larvae need to be homozygous recessive for a particular allele or alleles of the gene. The larvae are thought to be unable to produce the capping pheromone or enough capping pheromone at the right time to trigger the workers to construct a wax cap over their cells. As this is the same pheromone that seems to attract Varroa to enter the cells just prior to capping, bald brood larvae don't seem to get Varroa ( I have looked and not found any yet) . Interestingly Bald brood is far more common these days of endemic varroa so perhaps there is selection pressure favouring this allele. It is rather strange seeing the heads and eyes of the soon to emerge workers "looking" at you.

Good explanation

 

[ericbeaumont]

I've had the odd patch of bald brood and I've never seen the larvae cannibalised

The different routes to bald brood - wax moth, queen genetics and viral & varroa issues - may explain bees' different responses.

The first two are pretty straightforward, and bees tolerate genetic bb, but if viral larvae or varroa are part of the story my guess is that bees recognise the difference and chew to remove.

 

[ChalkwoodBees]

Fantastic pictures of Bald Brood thanks - really useful reference for those studying BBKA Module 3!!

 

[BugsInABox]

The work is progressive so the perforations are variable, but once the cap is off removal starts with chewing of eyes and head and so on; it suggests a degree of hygienic behaviour, though that isn't unusual.

I’s picked up from somewhere that the larvae could still develop into adults despite being uncapped. Is that just wrong? Though I guess it could depend on the cause??

 

[CaptainCymru]

Could you stick them in a small poly nuc over winter then re-queen at earliest?

 

[Apple]

At a lecture given by Dr Declan Schroder at the Marine Biological Association laboratories Citadel, in Plymouth few years ago now, he presented a chart showing all of the virus types that his team had discovered when working on the full honey bee genome. gut and parasitic fauna.
They had identified some as being pathogenic, causing type A,B and C Deformed wing virus, Israeli virus etc. Some but not all were also found to be transferred by Varroa destructor.

He identified one such virus as being the causative pathogen for baldbrood, which would rack up for my methodology of destruction of the infected colony, queen brood comb the lot.

Great shame that the UK (and Oxford University) could no longer fund his work on bee virus... now at MIT/ USA.

Any brood disease mus reduce the amount of honey production from the colony Shirley?

Nadelik Lowen

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I’s picked up from somewhere that the larvae could still develop into adults despite being uncapped. Is that just wrong? Though I guess it could depend on the cause??

Not wrong - totally correct. The strange thing about bald brood is that the larvae still develop normally and the colony carries on perfectly. It sometimes makes you wonder why they bother capping the brood in the first place

 

[Apple]

Not wrong - totally correct. The strange thing about bald brood is that the larvae still develop normally and the colony carries on perfectly. It sometimes makes you wonder why they bother capping the brood in the first place

I have noticed that it ( Bald brood) often seems to develop alongside Chinese slipper ( Sack Brood) which we are told is an infection caused by an aspergillus fungus...... perhaps the bald brood is more easily prone to infection as it is not capped... and with all those dirty feet walking over them???

Nadelik Lowen

 

[Kaz]

Thanks everyone for the replies and great advice, hopefully they will survive until spring in the greenhouse (they are in a poly nuc), protected from the worst of the cold and damp, and I will plan to re- queen then. I am very interested to see what happens...