Bald brood advice/ thoughts please

[Kaz]

I'm in Devon and have a colony which was very strong in the summer, in August I noticed patches of bald brood which didn't seem to align to a diagnosis of wax moth (not linear and the pattern was dotted over the face of the comb). There was also a small amount of sac brood. The local bee inspector attended and couldn't establish what the problem was and he advised culling them. When he saw my horrified, tearful face (spot the newbie ), he agreed that it might not be too late to try a shook swarm. That didn't resolve the problem (and obviously deleted numbers) and when the wasps and robber bees started a full frontal assault in October I did the only thing I could think of and put them in the greenhouse with a tunnel to the outside. They were down to only 3 frames of bees by then, and when I checked a fortnight ago the numbers were roughly the same (3 seams) and still lots of bald brood, which appears to continue to develop. It doesn't seem to be a varroa problem, having treated them in the summer and having a drop rate of only 1 -2 per week. They are protected from cold and damp in the greenhouse and are still flying and bringing in pollen... any thoughts on what might be going on? I think the bees are sealing then uncapping the brood... I would love to understand what's going on. I will try to add some pics
Edit: i can't seem to add pics to my post

 

[Boston Bees]

Never seen it, so won't be much use.

Seen this though:

Identify and Manage Bald Brood - YouTube

 

[Fritillary]

All I could suggest is that, if they somehow make it through the winter and hang on long enough, you could requeen them, if there really are enough bees left to make it worth it. (Otherwise: waste of queen.)
I do sympathise with your newbie try-anything sentiment though. I briefly had one little colony inside a mosquito net in my bedroom once, when I couldn't protect them from wasps outside! (To no avail in the end - colony not viable.)

 

[Murox]

Never seen it, so won't be much use.

Seen this though:

Identify and Manage Bald Brood - YouTube

good video

 

[Erichalfbee]

I’m sorry but this amply illustrates what a useless manipulation shook swarming is.
I would have changed the queen and it wound have been sorted.
The bee inspector was right about culling but ONLY the queen.

 

[Apple]

I’m sorry but this amply illustrates what a useless manipulation shook swarming is.
I would have changed the queen and it wound have been sorted.
The bee inspector was right about culling but ONLY the queen.

Shook swarm may be useful in the case of EFB.

Bald brood I experienced in Devon ( South Hams) some time ago was definitely caused by a virus
In Greek so called Buckfasts... managed to transfer it to another apiary site in a nuc split from the affected colonies.
I tried shook swarm on some to no avail.
Eventually all the colonies died out.
Sorry to say that the only solution is to destroy bees and frames and steralise everything else as soon as you find it.

Nadelik Lown

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I’m sorry but this amply illustrates what a useless manipulation shook swarming is.

I would have said much the same about the SBI

I would have changed the queen and it wound have been sorted.
The bee inspector was right about culling but ONLY the queen.

 

[Kaz]

Never seen it, so won't be much use.

Seen this though:

Identify and Manage Bald Brood - YouTube

Great video, those frames look exactly like mine! Thanks for sharing, I searched high and low and couldn't find anything useful. This is brilliant

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Edit: i can't seem to add pics to my post

Haven't you got an 'attach files' button on your profile? (as below)

 

[Kaz]

Haven't you got an 'attach files' button on your profile? (as below)
View attachment 23471View attachment 23471

Yes i have but when I click it, it goes grey but nothing happens...?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Strange, it should link to the files in your storage when you click on it, I advise you contact @Angie to see if she can sort it.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Yes i have but when I click it, it goes grey but nothing happens...?

Do either Of these work?
https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/threa...st-an-image-and-other-tips.47379/#post-716958

 

[Into the lions den]

Dont worry about it. Look strange but has little impact.

Have seen it intermittently myself since the 1960s...my father before that. Seems to make little long term difference to the colony.

Its not the same as varroa linked cell opening, and may..or may not..be associated with wax moth larvae.

It is not a disease, more a trait or behaviour pattern. Leave them to get on with it. Once requeened (which need not be something you do any time soon) it will probably disappear.

Probably see a few dozen examples of this every year......we do not do anything about it...it has no impact, does not spread, so would place it in the class of peculiarities rather than fret about having disease.

 

[BeeAdmin]

@Kaz What method are you visiting the forum? Phone, tablet or laptop? And then what type of those and which browser (Firefox, Chrome, Edge?)

I have looked at your account and see nothing that would keep you from being able to post a photo. And how fast is your internet?

 

[Swarm]

See it now and again and like ITLD says, the colony doesn't appear to suffer any ill effect, didn't the OP say it was a strong colony through Summer?
It seems the SBI achieved his original suggestion via his second? Poor advice.
Change the queen at some point if it bothers you.

 

[Boston Bees]

Great video, those frames look exactly like mine! Thanks for sharing, I searched high and low and couldn't find anything useful. This is brilliant

No problem.

Interesting rare (?) example of a YouTube video being a lot more use than an SBI (who in this case sounds like a total muppet)

 

[Ian123]

I was always under the assumption it’s more a genetic weakness inc the sac brood and rather like chalk brood clears with a change of queen. If you really wanted to change the frames then just add another box on top when the queen moves up slide an excluder between, job done. As others suggested the BI may have achieved his original suggestionalways worth checking for varroa when you see issues like this as could well have been additional stress on the colony. Ian

 

[Kaz]

@Kaz What method are you visiting the forum? Phone, tablet or laptop? And then what type of those and which browser (Firefox, Chrome, Edge?)

I have looked at your account and see nothing that would keep you from being able to post a photo. And how fast is your internet?

Good question Angie, I have been following a link from my emails so not sure which browser this opens. I've tried opening the browser first and when I open Chrome first and then go to the forum i can add pics. At least I know for the future, thanks

 

[Kaz]

I'm in Devon and have a colony which was very strong in the summer, in August I noticed patches of bald brood which didn't seem to align to a diagnosis of wax moth (not linear and the pattern was dotted over the face of the comb). There was also a small amount of sac brood. The local bee inspector attended and couldn't establish what the problem was and he advised culling them. When he saw my horrified, tearful face (spot the newbie ), he agreed that it might not be too late to try a shook swarm. That didn't resolve the problem (and obviously deleted numbers) and when the wasps and robber bees started a full frontal assault in October I did the only thing I could think of and put them in the greenhouse with a tunnel to the outside. They were down to only 3 frames of bees by then, and when I checked a fortnight ago the numbers were roughly the same (3 seams) and still lots of bald brood, which appears to continue to develop. It doesn't seem to be a varroa problem, having treated them in the summer and having a drop rate of only 1 -2 per week. They are protected from cold and damp in the greenhouse and are still flying and bringing in pollen... any thoughts on what might be going on? I think the bees are sealing then uncapping the brood... I would love to understand what's going on. I will try to add some pics
Edit: i can't seem to add pics to my post

I have managed to add pics, they are pretty much the same as the video so that feels somewhat reassuring, thanks to you all for your advice just look at those cute little faces

 

[GuyNir]

Thanks for sharing Kaz.