Bad Temper

[hedgerow pete]

I would never ever suggest to anyone evan a pro to have anger bee's or more angery than normal bee's because they are had work, i have never handled my bee's with out gloves and realy miss that contact, but the carno's i have for my newbee's you can wear very little the guy i got them from does not evan wear a veil and does not own a smoker, but there are limits i had to requeen one several years ago because i ended up having to wear my hornet suit to deal with them, i ended up lifting the supers squishing the queen and then splitting the two brood boxes into 5 nucs and putting in 5 new queens and they still played up for another 2 months

 

[Normandie]

How can I tell if my bees are the angry / aggressive sort?

This is our first hive of bees; this is the second year we've had them but the first year we've been actively managing them. Compared to the small hive we had last year, I'd say we've doubled or tripled the number of bees. As we're inexperienced, I'm loath to say they're aggressive... that's sort of worker blaming his tools scenario... but even so... I'm beginning to wonder.

We've visited our bees four times this year - always in the early afternoon, always on a warm day - to do general looking and analysing, add treatment strips, add a super etc. Each visit lasts max 30 minutes. There's no appreciable OSR in the area because it's not popular in this part of France.

First visit I got two stings on my neck through the veil which had "bunched" slightly under my chin.

Second time I got stung on my leg, through the trouser fabric.

Third time (today) OH got stung 3 or 4 times - he has a hat and veil that pull down under the armpits via elastic so it's probably 95% bee-proof. If a bee walks up the small of his back, there is a small gap where they can get under the veil.

They start bumping and barging as soon as we go within 4 or 5 metres of the hive. They will follow us back 30 or 40 yards round a building in order to see us off. Standing near the hive - within a metre - I have at least a dozen at any time crawling all over the dark part of my veil and they are flying into us the whole time.

As I said, we're novices so it could be something to do with how we're behaving around them but we use plenty of smoke, are very gentle and careful and keep our movements smooth and fairly slow but with all that, we're not enjoying working with them.

Is it us? Is it the bees? The idea of ever going anywhere near these without full kit is laughable. If I didn't react badly to stings I'd probably be more dismissive but the one on my leg ended up with a red, swollen area about 10 inches across, a blister the size of a small egg and takes 2 - 3 weeks to subside completely.

 

[Mission]

Get shut of the queen and do it quickly. NOBODY wants to be around or working with bad tempered bees. A new queens proginy will take a month or so to propogate through the hive though.

I have my hives around public places, gardens, neighbours etc. I wont tolerate bees that bounce off my veil the very second I walk near the hive.

Its not fun for me and its not fair on everyone else.

 

[jimbeekeeper]

but we use plenty of smoke,

Are you using to much smoke?

Are they queen less?

 

[shonabee]

I'm a new beginner, but mine have become v agressive due to queenlessness.
The difference is incredible; before they were very easy to handle, no stings, none hurling themselves at veil, and would lose interest in me after an inspection once I was more than a couple of steps away from the hive.
From your description it really doesn't sound like it's your imagination - I would definitely call them aggressive.

 

[hedgerow pete]

i would say it because your queen is over two years old and the hive is playing up because she cant control them, phone up mike at easy bee or someone else how is great with bees, dont relie on some old boy going use this one they are great , get some thing from proven stock, its quite normal for bees to be grumpy at times for the last 4 weeks mine have bean a nightmare to work with because we have had stormy weather rolling about and i have been doing inspections in the late afternoon, so it is ok if they are a bit grumpy but fo a new bee they can bee very frighting ask for either an italin or carni queen stock she will give you your gentleness back again

 

[jon]

Normandie:

That colony needs to be requeened as soon as possible.
What type of bees are they?
I have 8 colonies at the end of my allotment and I can work among them, check colony records under the lid etc without any protection at all. The only time I need a veil is when I have a crown board off during the weekly inspection for queen cells and they are often a bit grumpy for an hour or two after that.
Mine are native type local mongrels which are reputed to be feistier than Carniolans and Buckfast.
Bees following and pinging off the veil is not normal and should not be tolerated.
You can't enjoy beekeeping with bees like that.
Are you absolutely sure they are not queenless?

 

[BKF Admin]

its quite normal for bees to be grumpy at times, for the last 4 weeks mine have been a nightmare to work with because we have had stormy weather rolling about

Beginners please take note of Pete's comment above !

 

[MJBee]

Hi Normandie,
If you decide to go the requeening route I can thoroughly recommend "l'abeille d'auvergne" - website:- [email protected]

I had two queens from them last year, A "buma" which is buckfast strain, very prolific and very gentle. The other was a "YS" not so prolific but also very docile.
Good luck Mike

 

[Normandie]

Thank you for the replies. It's really appreciated.

Are we using too much smoke? I don't think so. Based on what we've seen at hive school and what we've seen on tv, on Youtube bee videos, etc, we're using a couple of puffs at the entrance on arrival, a couple of puffs across the top when we remove super, queen excluder etc. I think we've using enough... we may be using too much but I doubt it.

Queenless? Their behaviour has been the same since late March. It was worse today but then there were more of them. We definitely had eggs, lavae and capped brood 6 weeks ago so we had a queen then - and I had the two stings. Ditto three weeks ago when I got stung on the leg. Today, possibly they have swarmed or are about to because there are queen cells, lavae that filled the bottom of the cell so more than 3 days old but no eggs that we could see.

Type of bees. I don't know. We were given them by a novice beekeeper who was moving on and did not want to take them with her. She had been given them by the family of a beekeeper who had died. I know she unsuccessfully tried to re-queen them 2 years ago with a Carniolan queen - we didn't question her further at the time.

Thanks again for your comments. I didn't want to blame the bees without other opinions but now you've confirmed they may not be the calmest hive, I think we will talk to one of the "elders" at hive school and get his help re-queening the hive. We've not been able to find the queen (not marked) this year - there are so many bees on the frames and the bumping so consistent, taking the time we need (as novices) to find her hasn't been possible.

Edit:
None of the checks have been on stormy days. We pretty much get the same weather as Dorset or Devon and it hasn't been that hot or stormy yet. And certainly not today.

@MJBee - brilliant information, thank you.

 

[gavin]

I'm a new beginner, but mine have become v agressive due to queenlessness.
The difference is incredible; before they were very easy to handle, no stings, none hurling themselves at veil, and would lose interest in me after an inspection once I was more than a couple of steps away from the hive.
From your description it really doesn't sound like it's your imagination - I would definitely call them aggressive.

Hi Shona

Once you have a new queen back into lay the difference will be incredible. And if that doesn't work, someone local will be able to give you a queen cell from a more reasonable stock.

Will you be at the Coyle's for the auction the weekend after next? I may come along.

G.

 

[BKF Admin]

Edit:
None of the checks have been on stormy days. We pretty much get the same weather as Dorset or Devon and it hasn't been that hot or stormy yet. And certainly not today.

@MJBee - brilliant information, thank you.

Dorset/Hants has been stormy for the last couple of weeks,I have lost count of the number of beekeepers local to me in the last week who have said their bee's have been right %^^&*,mine included.

 

[jon]

Are we using too much smoke? I don't think so. Based on what we've seen at hive school and what we've seen on tv, on Youtube bee videos, etc, we're using a couple of puffs at the entrance on arrival, a couple of puffs across the top when we remove super, queen excluder etc. I think we've using enough... we may be using too much but I doubt it.

That sounds perfectly normal.

Queenless? Their behaviour has been the same since late March. It was worse today but then there were more of them. We definitely had eggs, lavae and capped brood 6 weeks ago so we had a queen then - and I had the two stings. Ditto three weeks ago when I got stung on the leg. Today, possibly they have swarmed or are about to because there are queen cells, lavae that filled the bottom of the cell so more than 3 days old but no eggs that we could see.

Were there any sealed cells? I would do an artificial swarm at this point.

 

[Mission]

The recent weather on my part of the penines has been a git! For the last 4 weeks it seems to have constantly being raining.

I think the weather keeping the bees grounded, topped by the new bees that have been hatching has caused a certain amount of overcrowding. This has led to the formation of swarm cells, that due to the weather have gone unchecked. Its prevented a lot inspections locally and then as soon as the weather has been sunny for an hour. They have been off swarming.

Another down side is that mating will have been effected. Luckily for us we have had a few days good weather and a few more are forecast for next week. I just hope we get some clear mating flights happening.

 

[Normandie]

Were there any sealed cells? I would do an artificial swarm at this point.

Sealed queen cells? Not as far as we could see. There were queen cells but empty. We talked about an artificial swarm after todays visit but as there did not appear to be any eggs and the lavae we saw were probably more than 3 days old, the queenless hive would not be able to raise a new queen. We would have to look at getting a frame of brood.

Or do you see that as the opportunity to introduce a new, purchased queen?

 

[jon]

Sealed queen cells? Not as far as we could see. There were queen cells but empty. ?

Queen cells or queen cups? Queen cups are present all the time.

Whatever you do, I would not rear a new queen from the stock you have so your choices are buy a queen, beg a queen or cadge a queen cell from a good stock.

 

[Jenxy]

You are not the only one, I went to look at my girlies on Tuesday and had a real shock at how angry they were... Even as a beginner, I could tell by the noise they were making that they were not at all happy to see me. They immediately flew up and were very intimidating. I have to say, that I was rather cowardly and hastily replaced the roof and retreated... towards my partner who was unfortunately dive-bombed and stung on the head. It even made me question my ability to continue with the whole thing...after assurances from a local beek that they would perhaps change in mood in a few days, I will attempt a mid day inspection on Saturday...If you don't hear from me in a while, you'll know they got really mad.

 

[Normandie]

Queen cells or queen cups? Queen cups are present all the time.

Have just questioned OH closely and on reflection, he thinks he only saw queen cups. Certainly nothing that was sealed.

One thing someone at hive school said was that sometimes if you move a hive to a new location for a few days and then bring them back and place them in a different position to where they were originally, they can calm down. That sometimes they just do not like the exact location of a hive.

Does anyone have an opinion on that?

Jenxy, your comment:

It even made me question my ability to continue with the whole thing...

is exactly how we feel. We are going to persevere but at the moment, hive visits are scary events and not something we look forward to.

 

[BKF Admin]

Normandie how close are your hives ? are you doing weekly inspections ?

 

[hedgerow pete]

i know iam beating my head against a wall at times but this is one of the reasons we prefere the learners to buy from a quality breeder as per say easy bee or such like, these people will deliver a know breed queen that will last two years before needing requeening also they are small when you get them and you and your bees grow at the same time, the two worse case problems are 50,000 bees and a newbee and getting old stock some people are glad to get rid of the amount of times i have come to someones house to find they have been flobbed off with someones half hearted atempt at breeding and has been asked to supply or have supplied some god awlful nuc to someone who does not know what they want or how to deal with it

treatment is easy i turn up swear several times squish queen there and then go home collect new queen return to hive and the lot of us newbee included starts again

and by far the worse abusers of this crime is clubs, some of there so called stocks and or breeding programes and there breeder beekeepers want shooting

twice