Autumn varroa treatment

[Stedic]

Hello,

I treated all (3!) of my hives for varroa at the end of August.

All three colonies seem healthy and I appear to have a lot of bees when I peer through the perspex crown boards that I fitted a couple of weeks ago.

On Sunday I decided to check the varroa levels. I left the boards in for 48 hours (because that was when I could retrieve them). Checking them today I have:

Hive #1 - 1 varroa
Hive #2 - 14 Varroa
Poly Nuc - unable to check

Beebase suggests I need to treat the second hive - what are my options at this time of the year? I was going to buy a Vapmite from Thornes to do a treatment in mid-December. Would it be OK to wait until then, or should I do something more immediately. If so, what are my options?

I have more Apiguard available, but its probably too cold for that. I could order a Vapmite and try to get it started next week. I'd like to avoid opening the hives but will do if there is an effective treatment that requires it.

I appreciate the higher varroa load has probably affected the winter bees already but would like to do what I can to get them through the winter - what are my realistic chances?

Thanks for any advice!

 

[Swarm]

Order a vaping tool and vape them.

 

[Stedic]

Order a vaping tool and vape them.

Vape now or vape in December?

 

[Swarm]

I'd crack on and do it now.

 

[Stedic]

I'd crack on and do it now.

Would you opt for the 3 treatments 5 days apart, or a single vap now with a follow up in December?

I've read some horror stories about the heat igniting burr comb, is this something I need to fret about? I wondered about using it under the OMF instead - although quite how how I do this while leaving the inspection tray in still confuses me.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Horror stories?
I might try putting some wax into the pan and see how long before it bursts into flames
I think scorching bottom bars is only a danger if you have top space.
You could vape under the OMF like quite a few do; just add a little more ox.............Apibioxal. Replace the inspection tray with a metal one or put a piece of soldering mat under the iron.
Give them the whole course of three

 

[Swarm]

Agree with Erichalfbee, about vaping from below OMF.

I make my own UFE (underfloor entrance) floors, with a smaller mesh area and inspection boards and I made a plywood board to slide on top of the inspection boards. To stop the tool from rotating or twisting, I added two strips of wood to create a slot for the main bar to fit into. You could add a clip to stop the thing from pivoting but I find the lead can sort that out. Slide this under the floor and stuff the gap with foam, connect, retire and time three minutes. Disconnect and allow it to cool a little, remove vaper and board and stuff the foam back in the gap, douse the pan in water before doing the next.

 

[charlievictorbravo]

You do not have a major infestation - 7 a day in natural drop. I'd do a bit more monitoring, say, over 7 days to confirm the level of Varroa. If it's still 5,6,7 or 8 a day, I'd be inclined to delay for a couple of months - mid to late December - when hopefully there will be no brood so that one vaping treatment will get all the mites. The chances are that, with the recent warm weather, you have brood in the hive at the moment and where there's brood, there's developing mites. With brood present, you have to do at least 3 vapings and you're still not sure you've got them all. As you are aware vaping involves buying or borrowing a vapourising bit of kit and using Apibioxal as the Oxalic Acid constituent.

On another thread there are reports from some forum members of mites successfully dealing with 7 or 8 vapings and still managing to live/reproduce. I had to resort to Apivar to deal with my problem hive after the colony dropped 4500 mites over 8 vapings and they were still dropping at 90 a day. The consensus view was that the mites were coming into the hive from a dying colony being robbed by my bees (but I'm not convinced but can think of no other explanation).

CVB

 

[Erichalfbee]

On another thread there are reports from some forum members of mites successfully dealing with 7 or 8 vapings and still managing to live/reproduce. I had to resort to Apivar to deal with my problem hive after the colony dropped 4500 mites over 8 vapings and they were still dropping at 90 a day. The consensus view was that the mites were coming into the hive from a dying colony being robbed by my bees (but I'm not convinced but can think of no other explanation).

CVB

How's that colony doing?
My 8K plus colony stopped dropping mites after 4 weeks of Apitraz and I took the strips out after 5 weeks (anticipating colder weather)
They are diminished but still there

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Would you opt for the 3 treatments 5 days apart, or a single vap now with a follow up in Decemb

Do the three, unless you can be certain they are broodess

I've read some horror stories about the heat igniting burr comb

ike most good horror stories, they are works of fiction

I wondered about using it under the OMF instead - although quite how how I do this while leaving the inspection tray in still confuses me.

Simple answer - take the tray out whist vaping.

you have to make an eke to put the nuc on to vape anyway (see my photo for an eke to fit a Maisie's nuc - this sits on the metal tray I slide in instead of the inspection tray and on which I rest my varrox to vape - but you may not have enough space to do that with your floor so what you could do is build a rough and ready wedge shaped eke for the full hives (triangular side pieces with the wide bit at the back), metal or wooden floor so more of a box in which the varrox sits in, then all you have to do is close the entrance, tilt the hive forward as if you were hefting, slide your eke in, rest the hive on it and vape away

 

[Millet]

What a palava , note added to book on what not to buy.

 

[Erichalfbee]

What a palava , note added to book on what not to buy.

What wouldn’t you buy? A vapouriser?

 

[charlievictorbravo]

How's that colony doing?
My 8K plus colony stopped dropping mites after 4 weeks of Apitraz and I took the strips out after 5 weeks (anticipating colder weather)
They are diminished but still there

The "problem" hive now has a 3-day moving average drop of 4 - hooray - but the other "at risk" hive that initially looked like it was responding to the vaping treatments suddenly started dropping 19, 36, 18, 17 per day so it got vaped again. Since then it has dropped 45, 90, 74, 29, 55 so I was out there in the dark this evening giving it another vape to try to get the drop below 10 per day.

CVB

 

[Millet]

What wouldn’t you buy? A vapouriser?

Not if you have to go through that rigmarole JBM mentioned, i have a vaporizer that has done me proud for the past 3 seasons ..can you see what i mean't.

 

[MartinL]

..can you see what i mean't.

not really,

You could be a bit less vague, (we are in the beginners section)
+ good old safety ELF e.t.c.?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Not if you have to go through that rigmarole JBM mentioned, i have a vaporizer that has done me proud for the past 3 seasons ..can you see what i mean't.

If you have floors already in situ JBMs way is a neat trick to avoid lifting the hive onto a tray made to accommodate the vapouriser. Once the floors are out of service you can deepen them thus creating room to slide the iron under the omf. The floors in question were made before JBM started using sublimation. I have a couple of his most recent models and the adjustment has been made.

 

[Millet]

If you have floors already in situ JBMs way is a neat trick to avoid lifting the hive onto a tray made to accommodate the vapouriser. Once the floors are out of service you can deepen them thus creating room to slide the iron under the omf. The floors in question were made before JBM started using sublimation. I have a couple of his most recent models and the adjustment has been made.

Got ya , all my DIY Underfloor entrances and normal varroa mesh floor have a modified inspection tray with a removable shim of wood at the rear to accommodate the gasser when vaping under the varroa mesh.

 

[charlievictorbravo]

Got ya , all my DIY Underfloor entrances and normal varroa mesh floor have a modified inspection tray with a removable shim of wood at the rear to accommodate the gasser when vaping under the varroa mesh.

My vaping setup was intended to be similar to yours but on initial use, the vapouriser burned a large brown mark in the middle of the monitoring board. I now vape with no board in place, the vapouriser resting on the hive support underneath the OMF. I rely on the convection current coming off the hot vapouriser to carry the vapour up through the OMF and into the hive.

This video showing the behaviour of Oxalic Acid at various temperatures has me wondering whether the issues I've had with vaping not clearing a hive of mites might be due to my Api Bioxal being damp and it boiling over before sublimating - I did see some whitish foam on the ground under the hive recently treated. I must try to ensure my AB is stored in ultra-dry conditions.

CVB

 

[Eyeman]

My vaping setup was intended to be similar to yours but on initial use, the vapouriser burned a large brown mark in the middle of the monitoring board. I now vape with no board in place, the vapouriser resting on the hive support underneath the OMF. I rely on the convection current coming off the hot vapouriser to carry the vapour up through the OMF and into the hive.

This video showing the behaviour of Oxalic Acid at various temperatures has me wondering whether the issues I've had with vaping not clearing a hive of mites might be due to my Api Bioxal being damp and it boiling over before sublimating - I did see some whitish foam on the ground under the hive recently treated. I must try to ensure my AB is stored in ultra-dry conditions.

CVB

I used to have the same problem with the occasional OA 'spilling' over the vaping pan onto the tray. This was 'neat OA'. It seemed to be related to whether I left the OA heaped up in the centre of the pan or whether it was spread out smoothly. From memory I think that heaping up worked best.

 

[Fritillary]

my Api Bioxal being damp and it boiling over before sublimating CVB

Yes I've been wondering about this too - not exactly subliming then is it? Tho it does seem to go on and produce the fumes... and then I've seen powdery deposit below afterwards.