Asian hornets in the UK. A chance of stopping them?

[mazzamazda]

A pic of the loaded hornet

 

[maddydog]

A pic of the loaded hornet

Kudos to you for your method and results. Thanks for posting as I'm sure it'll only be a matter of time....

 

[chrismcd]

Why not just use the Insect Grow Regulator?

Yes, that is exactly the problem with using the poison neat, hornet dies too early and doesn't pass on the poison before it dies.

Frontline is a mix of Fipronil (to kill adults) and Methoprene (to kill larvae).

As I understand it your strategy is to use foraging adults to carry poison back to the nest to poison it - but that the Fipronil is killing them too soon.

Why not just use the Methoprene? It is used on Fire Ants, so is effective on Hymenoptera. Feeding poisoned bait to foraging ants is a tried and tested technique - as I remember the problem was finding an attractive bait and you have solved that problem!

Methoprene is a juvenile hormone analog - it should do a slow but sure job of killing off the nest. Certainly worth a try?

It has a better tox profile than Fipronil (Dutch egg scare anyone?).

Methoprene is about as "safe" as you can get with an insecticide. Indeed it has been added to human drinking water cisterns and fed to cattle to control flies in the dung!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methoprene

 

[Plenty of honey]

Frontline is a mix of Fipronil (to kill adults) and Methoprene (to kill larvae).

As I understand it your strategy is to use foraging adults to carry poison back to the nest to poison it - but that the Fipronil is killing them too soon.

Why not just use the Methoprene? It is used on Fire Ants, so is effective on Hymenoptera. Feeding poisoned bait to foraging ants is a tried and tested technique - as I remember the problem was finding an attractive bait and you have solved that problem!

Methoprene is a juvenile hormone analog - it should do a slow but sure job of killing off the nest. Certainly worth a try?

It has a better tox profile than Fipronil (Dutch egg scare anyone?).

Methoprene is about as "safe" as you can get with an insecticide. Indeed it has been added to human drinking water cisterns and fed to cattle to control flies in the dung!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methoprene

Thats the whole point of the above picture. The Fipronil is mixed in to a thick custard, and painted on to the hard thorax of the Asian Hornet. This thick custard holds its shape and allows you to pile it up, then the thorax is a clear barrier between the poison and the Hornet, so it dosent kill the hornet (too soon)until it cleans itself, or others clean it in the nest. This then distributes the poison.
Obviously the safest poison the better, i cannot comment on what may be the most appropriate in the best scenario. but this works well, .i am sure it may be tweaked and reassessed as someone makes a better product, but this is a really good method. Small amount of poison, directly targeted and pest specific. its a no brainer.

 

[Karol]

Chrismcd - using a larvaecide misses the point. The whole strategy is based on killing the queen before she has chance to spawn the new sexual progeny so fipronil is key as is presenting it in a form which encourages trophallaxis.

 

[chrismcd]

Hi Karol,

I have not "missed the point" I am simply proposing the standard bait method of control used worldwide for killing wasp and ant colonies - to be frank I am surprised that you appear to be unaware of it.

If the foraging hornets are collecting protein they are still feeding larvae - including the late "sexual" generations.

So, methoprene will prevent the final metamorphosis and emergence of the sexual progeny.

Won't do much to control the existing foragers or queen I grant you, but should ensure that the nest has no successors in the following season.

Works for ants, so I do not see why it should not work on hornets

https://www.researchgate.net/public...sHymenoptera_Formicidae_With_Methoprene_Baits

https://www.centralantcontrol.com/all-products/tango

 

[MuswellMetro]

Chrismcd - using a larvaecide misses the point. The whole strategy is based on killing the queen before she has chance to spawn the new sexual progeny so fipronil is key as is presenting it in a form which encourages trophallaxis.

if you read Prof Martin Book on the Asian hornet, his view is that trapping queens has the reverse effect in producing single large colonies that produce a great more queens for the next year and reinforces the common two year cycle as found with other yellow jacket wasps ( Vespula). This is becuase the major control of Asian hornet density is Asain hornet queens usurping other Asain queen hornets prime nest when their own prime nest fails

 

[Hivemaker.]

This is becuase the major control of Asian hornet density is Asain hornet queens usurping other Asain queen hornets prime nest when their own prime nest fails

Sounds like best to leave well alone and let them get on with it then.

 

[Millet]

Just blast the fookers with bendiocarb , it does not kill them or anything straight away but the end results are nice.

 

[Karol]

if you read Prof Martin Book on the Asian hornet, his view is that trapping queens has the reverse effect in producing single large colonies that produce a great more queens for the next year and reinforces the common two year cycle as found with other yellow jacket wasps ( Vespula). This is becuase the major control of Asian hornet density is Asain hornet queens usurping other Asain queen hornets prime nest when their own prime nest fails

Number of things:

I've never been a proponent of trapping Asian (or any other wasp) queens in spring but then that's not what we're talking about anyway. Even if Prof Book is correct his theory doesn't apply to foragers used as Trojans.

Prof Book isn't the only academic to postulate usurpation as a population modulator in wasps. I don't buy into it in the UK otherwise we would have more consistent wasp populations from one year to the next which just isn't the case. The biggest modulators of wasp populations IMHO are weather, agro-pesticides and injudicious nest eradication by PCOs, beeks and DIYers.

In the UK we never get two year 'yellow jacket' cycles. Wasp behaviour down under is another matter entirely and in densely wasp populated areas supported by honeydew production by scale insects then usurpation may well occur but in the UK we just don't see that level of wasp densities.

 

[bontbee]

Does anyone know if anything predates dead hornet nests? (or do I mean preys on? Predates always sounds a bit previous...)

 

[Swarm]

You can't predate something that's dead and dead stuff is carrion rather than prey?
Scavenge?

 

[Karol]

Hi Karol,

<snip>

If the foraging hornets are collecting protein they are still feeding larvae - including the late "sexual" generations.

<snip>

Works for ants, so I do not see why it should not work on hornets

<snip>

Sorry Chrismcd I missed your post from earlier.

In answer to your question the volumes required, time scales involved and method of delivery of methoprene make it unsuitable for using on hornets. Ant and hornet behaviours are very different.

The advantage of the Mazzamethod is that it takes a small amount of short lived pesticide (reduces risk of non target species being poisoned) and relatively little effort to kill the queen early on in the nest life cycle. So not only does it prevent development of the sexual castes it also prevents development of workers which do the bulk of the damage to bee colonies during the hunting phase.

 

[bontbee]

You can't predate something that's dead and dead stuff is carrion rather than prey?
Scavenge?

Ahhh, that's it! Thanks, Swarm. I think my brain must be carrion.....except there's nowt to scavenge in there!

 

[chrismcd]

The advantage of the Mazzamethod is that it takes a small amount of short lived pesticide (reduces risk of non target species being poisoned) and relatively little effort to kill the queen early on in the nest life cycle. So not only does it prevent development of the sexual castes it also prevents development of workers which do the bulk of the damage to bee colonies during the hunting phase.

Hi Karol,

When we were testing the baiting method our main problem was getting a bait that was sufficiently attractive for the ants to take back to the nest. Mazzamethod's technique solves that problem. But I take your point that methomyl is not as quick as people want.

Sounds like we are needing a slower acting adulticide. Fipronil has been used - surprise surprise, but is clearly too fast acting for this particular pest.

http://www.pctonline.com/article/dead-ant-walking/

Borax was used in the old "Nippon" formulations, but there have been developments. By the look of it DuPont's Indoxacarb is currently the flavour of the month!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indoxacarb

http://thebugskiller.com/how-to-kill-ants-and-stop-them-from-coming-back-the-best-ant-killer/

Might be worth a try?

 

[chrismcd]

Just blast the fookers with bendiocarb , it does not kill them or anything straight away but the end results are nice.

Hi Millet,

As you say, works a treat on wasps nest - but you have to find them and then get close in to dust the opening.

Baiting is a better idea when you cannot find the nest or where it is just too damm difficult to get to. I know Bendiocarb is a very popular pest control product, but I cannot find any references to using it in baits.

As I remember it is too fast acting, particularly in hot conditions.

 

[Karol]

My understanding from Mazzamazda that his formulation takes 3hrs to kill which seems ideal to me. Just enough time to get back and distribute the toxin.

 

[madasafish]

This month's BBKA news has a long - several pages - article on trapping Asian hornets. NOT a word on poisoning them..
Almost entirely based on French experience .

 

[chrismcd]

My understanding from Mazzamazda that his formulation takes 3hrs to kill which seems ideal to me. Just enough time to get back and distribute the toxin.

I was confused by Mazzamazda's comment to Changmai

"Yes, that is exactly the problem with using the poison neat, hornet dies too early and doesnt pass on the poison before it dies."

On rereading, I think that he was recommending his "custard" formulation!

 

[mazzamazda]

Well I've spotted a few queens looking for residence over the last few days so it looks like more work for next year. The only hornets I've seen for the last month.