Apitraz in November - Oxalic in December?

[ShinySideUp]

I had a late outbreak of varroa and put in some apitraz strips for six weeks, taking them out on 20th November. Since then there has been no mite drop at all.

I normally treat with ApiBioxal trickle on Christmas day -- should I do it or is there no point?

 

[Stiffy]

I had a late outbreak of varroa and put in some apitraz strips for six weeks, taking them out on 20th November. Since then there has been no mite drop at all.

I normally treat with ApiBioxal trickle on Christmas day -- should I do it or is there no point?

I don’t know your bees or their current state but I use apivar in the autumn and then sublimate OA in the spring to ensure they are free of mites when they build up.
S

 

[MuswellMetro]

I don’t know your bees or their current state but I use apivar in the autumn and then sublimate OA in the spring to ensure they are free of mites when they build up.
S

LASI at university of sussex are saying two winter treatments of oxalic by sublimation 7 days apart means you can leave them for over a year without treatment

i would suggest you may have similar results if you use oxalic on christmas day

 

[Curly green fingers]

I had a late outbreak of varroa and put in some apitraz strips for six weeks, taking them out on 20th November. Since then there has been no mite drop at all.

I normally treat with ApiBioxal trickle on Christmas day -- should I do it or is there no point?

I'm in the same situation as you , I plan to leave the trickle out as my mite drop is nil .
I will be doing alcohol washes to access the mite drop come spring instead.

 

[Poly Hive]

For some 12 years now I have trickled in Jan and have been unable to find mites in the sealed drone brood in the following season.

Just thought to throw it in. But... I do wonder whether my strain of bee has an input here.

PH

 

[Beefriendly]

Might be potentially more helpful if you said what strain you use?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

LASI at university of sussex are saying two winter treatments of oxalic by sublimation 7 days apart means you can leave them for over a year without treatment

i would suggest you may have similar results if you use oxalic on christmas day

but only if you follow their mantra and rip out all the brood.
You'd get the same result by just vaping them three times five days apart - without opening them up.

 

[Stiffy]

LASI at university of sussex are saying two winter treatments of oxalic by sublimation 7 days apart means you can leave them for over a year without treatment

i would suggest you may have similar results if you use oxalic on christmas day

The reasearch states ‘may’ be effective for 12 months not that it is effective, very very different. My treatment regime, I believe ensures the bees go into winter with a light load and in spring have a good chance of building up quickly. I also want, indeed need the bees to be in a good state to maximise any crop and do more than survive until next year.
On saying that, I will (hopefully) be trialling some VSH Buckfast next year. This will be at an out Apiary, away from my other colonies.
S

 

[For want of a better word]

After meeting Randy Oliver and hearing his fantastic lectures at the IOM BIBBA Conference... I now follow a system of constant IPM

Spring sublimation with Varrox beneath the OMF.... rhubarb leaves during the times of flow... during T shirt weather a trickle of Vimto with added 3% oxallic ( Apipoxall if you can afford it)... if I see any mites... ( probably fly in from neighbors untreated imports) and a sublimation in December after feeding.
Trialing a sublimation eke.. but needs crownboard removal... using a Sublimox.

Hole in the side of BB then corked ... OK... but would have ruined my bespoke BHS painted polly hives.

Varomor worked well ... but OA carrier ethanol was expensive..... SWMBO has now commandeered for white fly fogging as kit will do both !

Nadelik Lowen

 

[fatshark]

You must have a lot of mites (incoming or endogenous) to need that amount of OA. I know it's popular to treat a lot in the States amongst the commercial operations - particularly since TakTic was pulled - but under normal conditions you should be able to use fewer treatments in the UK.

Early autumn and broodless midwinter treatments here give undetectable mite levels by routine washes or pupal uncapping. They are there because we get a drop upon treatment.

Is there evidence that the rhubarb leaves actually work? i.e. properly quantified and controlled studies, not just the normal hearsay that many appear to consider incontrovertible proof

 

[For want of a better word]

You must have a lot of mites (incoming or endogenous) to need that amount of OA. I know it's popular to treat a lot in the States amongst the commercial operations - particularly since TakTic was pulled - but under normal conditions you should be able to use fewer treatments in the UK.

Early autumn and broodless midwinter treatments here give undetectable mite levels by routine washes or pupal uncapping. They are there because we get a drop upon treatment.

Is there evidence that the rhubarb leaves actually work? i.e. properly quantified and controlled studies, not just the normal hearsay that many appear to consider incontrovertible proof

TacTic is Amitraz.... not at all sure I would want or need to put it on my bees!
https://www.homeovet.co.uk/taktic_a..._lice_and_keds_on_cattle_sheep_goats_and_pigs

Randy Olivers mantra was keep varroa mites at a low threashold using constant and varied IPM

Rhubarb leave work if used in the prescribed manner... quite a few peer reviewed papers if you look.

Possibly the type of bees I keep are very good at being varroa free.... Cornish Amm and ( in another valley!!) Italian NZ hybrid types.



Last real infestation I saw was in the Carniolians I had in South Hams area of Devon.... 98 / 99????

Nadelik Lowen

 

[fatshark]

I know what TakTic is and wasn't suggesting you need it.
I'd be interested in seeing the peer-reviewed papers that show rhubarb works - could you post them? I know there's a lot on the web, but have found no controlled evidence. OA levels in rhubarb are pretty low - no more than 1.5%.

What might be the consequences of a constant sub-lethal dose?

Constant vigilance and varied IPM when needed might be better. Your IPM isn't varied ... all of them are OA.

 

[For want of a better word]

I know what TakTic is and wasn't suggesting you need it.
I'd be interested in seeing the peer-reviewed papers that show rhubarb works - could you post them? I know there's a lot on the web, but have found no controlled evidence. OA levels in rhubarb are pretty low - no more than 1.5%.

What might be the consequences of a constant sub-lethal dose?

Constant vigilance and varied IPM when needed might be better. Your IPM isn't varied ... all of them are OA.

The peer reviewed paper was published in Polish and I paid for subscription and English translation.. and are copyright!

The link would be useless to you unless you put your hand in your pocket...

Maybe others can share the work with you?

OA works..and as far as I know varroa has not shown any resistance... unlike the snake oil others may wish to use!

Nadelik Lowen

 

[Beefriendly]

Doubt anything peer reviewed has been published on actual whole rhubarb leaves and varroa.
Not peer reviewed but a Polish couple of beekeepers published the following in the March 2017 issue of Beekeepers Quarterly. It all seems very anecdotal.....

"Polish beekeepers Ann and Maciej Winlarski advise the use of rhubarb leaves and stems straight from the garden. . Tenderizing a rhubarb leaf and cut off stem with a hammer, the plant material is placed in the hive on the top bars above the brood nest. The worker bees immediately begin to remove the tender parts of the rhubarb and in the process expose the colony to low levels of oxalic acid. Over the next four or five days, the Winlarskis report mite drop increases by a factor of 2x to 7x. They remove the tough bits the bees can’t deal with, and put on a freshly pulverized leaf and stem. This process is repeated 5 times. This season they will test a repeat of 10 times. The method is easy on the bees, non toxic and can be used during a honey flow.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

All sounds very vague and fluffy to me - wonder if the bees will be alive next season for a 10x treatment?

 

[fatshark]

The peer reviewed paper was published in Polish and I paid for subscription and English translation.. and are copyright!

The link would be useless to you unless you put your hand in your pocket...

Please send the link. I'll have access to it.

 

[Swarm]

They are adding custard next year

 

[Gilberdyke John]

They are adding custard next year

How about rum sauce?

 

[Beefriendly]

The secret is to translate Rhubarb into Polish......rabarbar
Then lots of things come up...Pasieka (means Apiary) is a beekeeping magazine though....Not a peer reviewed journal article in sight....so come on Hoppy do pass on the link to your peer reviewed one.

M. Winiarski, My Method of Integrated Combat with Varroa destructor, "Pasieka" 2010, No. 1 (39) pp. 18-21. W. Małychin, Beekeeping - return to nature. Practical application of the insulator Petra Chmary, Gospodarstwo Pasieczne "Sądecki Bartnik" A. & J. Kasztelewicz, Stróże 2014, p. 49. http://sukcesbartnika.pl/happy-culter-rabarbar-i-warroza/ http: // zdrowie. wp.pl/zdrowie/aktualnosci/art1126,kwas-szczawiowy-w-szpinaku-i-rabarbarze.html

Nice folky link- use google translate to read as it's in Polish.
https://pasieka24.pl/index.php/pasi...integrowanej-metody-walki-z-varroa-destructor

 

[Beefriendly]

Come along now Cheers, are you going to post a link to this peer reviewed rhubarb leaf varroa research or not? A good friend of mine is Polish so translation is not an issue......