Any reason why most hives are. 11/12 frame? Could they be larger ?

[Rivachaz]

Hi everyone,

Could anyone give advice as to why most hive configurations are 11 /12 frames?

Is it due to the colony preferring vertical expansion rather than horizontal?

Could a larger diy hive have say 15-20 frames to ease the pressure of swarming ?

Obviously the supers would have to be matched in size /frame count, and the queen excluder.

Any thoughts? Or experiences of
Horizontal larger hives ?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

There are quite a few 'long hive' configurations around, but with them you lose practicality with a larger hive being a lot less portable - and whatever some, who seem to lack imagination say, itinerant beekeeping is still important in the UK (Spring orchard pollination, OSR, Borage, Heather are just a few examples) although bees seem very comfortable in a long hive, you do seem to lose some productivity, Bees seem to wok well in a more vertical setup. It's also easier for the beekeeper.
Making a hive larger is only a small part in avoiding swarming, a lot is down to management, and again, the standard configurations we have make this easier.

 

[user 6228]

Weight that a human can carry. Bee keeping rarely is targeted at what is optimal for bees. Partly because of the lack of information.

 

[rolande]

Back in the 50s/60s Burtts of Gloucester used to sell a special WBC with 16 frame brood chamber but supered with standard WBC supers. I'll search out one of their old catalogues and take a photo out of interest.

I have actually seen one in regular use in my younger days in the apiary of Doug Oliff, the well known mastiff breeder.

 

[user 819]

Horizontal hives aka Long the Dartington design having small supers to enable disability users to mange them . My long hive is PIR made and holds 24 - 26 std BS deep frames, I don't use supers but simply harvest individual frames to give them room. I carry a correx nuc with foundationless frames or used drawn frames for manipulations.

 

[drex]

I have used long hives, both Kenyan and those taking DN frames. As JBM says, I found them less productive. I now use as standard double National broods. You can have as many brood boxes as the bees need and you like. I don't see a problem.

 

[Antipodes]

Hi everyone,

Could anyone give advice as to why most hive configurations are 11 /12 frames?

Is it due to the colony preferring vertical expansion rather than horizontal?

Could a larger diy hive have say 15-20 frames to ease the pressure of swarming ?

Obviously the supers would have to be matched in size /frame count, and the queen excluder.

Any thoughts? Or experiences of
Horizontal larger hives ?

Here it's mainly as outlined in the link below. Not 11/12 frames. You guys have square hive boxes as I understand it, but the Langstroth 8 and 10 frame boxes are rectangular. No such thing as "cold way" frames or any issue as to which way around to put the queen excluder. I use 8 frame boxes.

http://www.johnlguilfoyle.com.au/australian hive sizes.htm

 

[rolande]

Here it's mainly as outlined in the link below. Not 11/12 frames. You guys have square hive boxes as I understand it, but the Langstroth 8 and 10 frame boxes are rectangular. No such thing as "cold way" frames or any issue as to which way around to put the queen excluder. I use 8 frame boxes.

http://www.johnlguilfoyle.com.au/australian hive sizes.htm

No issue which way an excluder goes on a square box either!

The modified dadant (the proper one, not the needless buckfast abbey version) is a 11 frame rectangular box, as is the Smith so they're not all square despite the greater number of frames

 

[North End Bees]

Langstroth 8 and 10 frame boxes are rectangular. No such thing as "cold way" frames

Langstroths are all cold way.
That's why I prefer nationals as I can inspect from behind the box rather than the side.

 

[Newbeeneil]

Langstroths are all cold way.
That's why I prefer nationals as I can inspect from behind the box rather than the side.

Surely it would be easy to make a Langstroth floor with an entrance at the side and hence have it “the warm way”?

 

[North End Bees]

Surely it would be easy to make a Langstroth floor with an entrance at the side and hence have it “the warm way”?

That's very true and would be a good solution. Although I do like nationals for other reasons, mainly being able to give away/receive frames.
Initially I was just mentioning that Antipodes said that langstroths aren't cold way.

 

[enrico]

Bees need to swarm to reproduce, you will never prevent it, I doubt you can actually minimise it much. Although it is fair to say you can probably make it happen sooner than necessary but who knows!
The one thing you can do is to manage it.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Langstroths are all cold way.

Unless you make your own UFE floor

 

[North End Bees]

Unless you make your own UFE floor

As Neil said above. But I was just saying that Antipodes said they weren't cold way.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

But I was just saying that Antipodes said they weren't cold way.

when in fact, by default, they all are

 

[Antipodes]

That's very true and would be a good solution. Although I do like nationals for other reasons, mainly being able to give away/receive frames.
Initially I was just mentioning that Antipodes said that langstroths aren't cold way.

Sorry little bees. I wasn't clear at all with my words and ended up saying the wrong thing. I was trying to make the point that there is no fretting about a decision as to which way around to put frames as they only go the one way. Likewise with a queen excluder, here there is only one way to align them as they are not square of course It took me a while to realise what you guys over there were talking about (some time back) with cold way and warm way frame alignment and talk of which way to align a queen excluder. I didn't initially realise that you had square boxes.

 

[Antipodes]

Unless you make your own UFE floor

I have warm way alignment in parts of a couple of hives split board hives at the moment as the entrance for half the boxes/bees is on the side (as in a Snelgrove board) but I've also got a side entrance in a split board or two. In those situations it's a kinda narrow warm way box as the width is 353mm and the length 508mm

 

[B_north]

I have been running Ukrainian hives for 4 years and they have 14" X 16" deep frames. Two have 16 frames, one holds 23 frames. I can keep them from swarming with frame manipulation, expanding the broodnest to 10 frames and then condensing it down to 6 early July just as the honey flow is starting.

These hives still swarm and can swarm multiple times each. It takes time to learn how to run them, but no more than any other hive configuration. You can do most beekeeping methods horizontally you just have to adapt the process from the vertical set up.

I do love working my hives but they are not for those who wish to transport or move them often, they stay put. They are a joy to work with especially for those with limited ability to lift.

Google Ukrainian hives and there is a plethora of good interesting information, but use the translation button on you-tube as most are not in English.

 

[rolande]

Back in the 50s/60s Burtts of Gloucester used to sell a special WBC with 16 frame brood chamber but supered with standard WBC supers. I'll search out one of their old catalogues and take a photo out of interest.

I have actually seen one in regular use in my younger days in the apiary of Doug Oliff, the well known mastiff breeder.

Misremembered, was 14 frame brood chamber not sixteen.
...

 

[jarmo henttu]

Horizontal hives aka Long the Dartington design having small supers to enable disability users to mange them . My long hive is PIR made and holds 24 - 26 std BS deep frames, I don't use supers but simply harvest individual frames to give them room. I carry a correx nuc with foundationless frames or used drawn frames for manipulations.

Long hive was 60 years ago the most used hive in Finland, but nowadays no one use then.

Impossible to move remote pastures = best pastures.