Any Idea's , what went wrong with this one ???????

[Jed D]

Constructive criticism invited....

6 frames poly nuc , went into winter full of Bee's & stores..
Treated with api bio just after xmas. ( Bees in 3 seams at this point )
Also placed a bag of fondant on top of the frames at this time... On top of this was an eke with insulation packed round the fondant... They had a run on Mustard in early Oct , which I thought meant they had plenty of pollen..

Anyway click the link to see pics...

Top right of up turned Roof ( Queenie ) + the workers from the Nuc floor..
There is capped brood on two frames ' but only 3 sides, i.e both sides of frame next to internal feeder and one side of next frame.
http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s565/Jed-D/new ones 013_zps7ka3jogj.jpg

There does seem to be a brood break i.e. capped brood ,then about 6 lavae and a dozen eggs !
I've also noticed , they is very little stores around the brood ' but the next 3 frames are full of pollen and honey

http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s565/Jed-D/new ones 015_zpsjsk5snlf.jpg

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

bees with heads in cells would suggest starvation - isolation starvation of some kind - bees unwilling to move to stores and risk abandoning brood?

 

[Jimmys Mum]

I'd hazard a guess at isolation starvation. Heads in cells being one clue. Bees clustered to keep the brood warm and wouldn't move that couple of inches to access the stores.

Sorry you lost them - personally, I wouldn't have done anything different from what you describe but will be interested to see what others with more experience think.

**** JBM beat me to it whilst I was faffing around with my grammar and punctuation!

 

[Jed D]

As I'm sat here typing , I'm now thinking that the frames with brood on, do seem " dry " i.e. stores total cleaned out ! ( in fact , I'm now off to look at them again )
Even though , directly on the top bars , there is a bag of fondant with 1/3 of the underside of the bag cut away....

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Even though , directly on the top bars , there is a bag of fondant with 1/3 of the underside of the bag cut away....

That's bees for you!

 

[Jed D]

Little Buggers... Really nice Bees , split from our own stock last June.
Here's a pic of the whole frame..

http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s565/Jed-D/new ones 023_zpsa7hragow.jpg

And a close up , with a couple of Lavae.

http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s565/Jed-D/new ones 025_zps1rz5l0pt.jpg

Can you put my mind at rest and tell me , there if nothing nasty in here ?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

nasties would be hard to spot, you won't see nosema but I'm convinced isolation starvation due to reluctance to abandon brood - it happens

 

[Jed D]

Topman.. Thanks..
Wax can go for re-melt , frames will start a nice garden fire...

 

[B+.]

Topman.. Thanks..
Wax can go for re-melt , frames will start a nice garden fire...

Did I miss something? Why burn the frames?

I agree that these bees show the clasic signs of starvation, but, thats no reason to burn the frames. The bodies will be dragged out and the comb will be reused by other bees.

Unless you REALLY think there is a disease problem, burning them is just wasteful

 

[Jed D]

No , I don't think there's a problem ' but , I'm not a man that takes to many chances , so for the sake of a few quid.
I'll chuck them away and start again..
We run double brood last year , even these frames are labelled , so they go back with the same colonies....
I'm sure a touch nerd ish.

 

[B+.]

No , I don't think there's a problem ' but , I'm not a man that takes to many chances with Bees , so for the sake of a few quid.
I'll chuck them away and start again..
We run double brood last year , even these frames are labelled , so they go back with the same colonies....
I'm sure a touch nerd ish.

Of course, its your equipment to deal with as you see fit but the frames look clean to me (no sign of dysentery stains, etc). Without looking under a microscope for nosema spores, I see no reason to scrap them.

 

[Jed D]

I'll have another look at them tomorrow..

 

[Pete D]

Yep starvation, plenty of bees, brood and a cold few days, lots of mouths to feed and couldn't / wouldn't move.
Freeze 30 if you still have them and we can stick them under the scope but we may just find empty tums and sticky out tongues

 

[user 6228]

What was the level of insulation?

 

[Pete D]

looks to be 6 frame poly nuc, extra eke added and insulation placed within it, ie beneath the lid

 

[Eyeman]

My 6F nucs with only top insulation survive the winter with a small stork tub of fondant over the feeder hole in the crown board which is then topped up when needed.
Your insulated hive should not have resulted in isolation starvation unless there was something else wrong with the bees that stopped them moving around. Isolation starvation could result from sick bees not moving to stores & fondant?
Alec

 

[user 6228]

ekes are problematical fro ma thermal point of view they can move the warm layers of air to above the brood and the bees may have difficulty in propolising the extra joints as some are then inaccessable.
Some poly nucs have thinner walls and roofs and you may be mislead as to how insulating they are.

 

[drstitson]

"They had a run on Mustard in early Oct , which I thought meant they had plenty of pollen.."

it's nectar they need for winter stores!!!!

did you feed in the autumn?

 

[madasafish]

I assume it was a wooden eke on top of a poly nuc?

All you need is one ill fitting joint to hive or joint to roof...and in cold weather that could tip the balance..

I find small nucs struggle here unless very well insulated and lots of stores..

 

[mbc]

I'm thinking a gale across their arse doesn't help with warmth in these boxes if the colony is small and they've just started brooding.
I'm currently going round blanking off the bottoms to avoid just this.