Another lost colony story

[manek]

PS: would it be safe to re-use the frames?

 

[Boston Bees]

Thank you for the help and advice. Looks like my IPM (MAQS in August+OA vape in December) wasn't good enough.

Thanks for posting the pics. Good for us all to learn from.

Regarding your re-using question, if there is no sign of brood disease, and if the wax isn't too black, then personally I would just cut out any part of a frame which contains brood (or where there clearly has been brood recently), but leave the arc of honey available for re-use in another hive.

But others advocate cutting out all the wax and just starting from scratch, which no doubt has merits too and would certainly be the safest route.

 

[Boston Bees]

Thank you for the help and advice. Looks like my IPM (MAQS in August+OA vape in December) wasn't good enough.

PS: It could be worse, you just lost one hive ... poor old Vino Farm lost all but one

 

[gmonag]

The surprising thing though, is how many others reported losing all their hives too (up to 30!) in the comments.

 

[Michael Palmer]

I'll third that

Amen

 

[user 819]

Despite surmising via description, a pic /pics often give a definitive view. It's a good learning curve and all can use these pics in the future for reference and comparison so well done for posting. Even after your treatment, robbing or drifting bees may have brought back or brought in varroa later thus causing the damage to the new winter bees be raised.
The lady beek at the LBKA I'm sure doesn't believe what we have told her and was still trying to invent some reason as to why her bees have died out.

 

[Boston Bees]

The surprising thing though, is how many others reported losing all their hives too (up to 30!) in the comments.

We didn't see much of Vino's combs, though they seemed to have plenty of food. The key phrase for me was "I treated in October", but who knows.

 

[mbc]

We didn't see much of Vino's combs, though they seemed to have plenty of food. The key phrase for me was "I treated in October", but who knows.

I saw that video, he treated with an oxalic vape in October, no mention of repeated vapes or mid winter, he then goes on to leave stores frames from dead outs resting on the front of his remaining colony to "help" them. The lad seems quite nice so I hope he learns how to look after bees a bit better for the future.

 

[mbc]

Despite surmising via description, a pic /pics often give a definitive view. It's a good learning curve and all can use these pics in the future for reference and comparison so well done for posting. Even after your treatment, robbing or drifting bees may have brought back or brought in varroa later thus causing the damage to the new winter bees be raised.
The lady beek at the LBKA I'm sure doesn't believe what we have told her and was still trying to invent some reason as to why her bees have died out.

We don't see it so much 30 years down the line, but certainly for the first dozen years or so of varroa whole areas would domino to destruction as they gained the virus and varroa from the nearest collapsing colonies, probably also led to early resistance to fluvalinate as beekeepers would tell their less fortunate friends how they hadn't suffered by leaving the strips in all winter.

 

[North End Bees]

We didn't see much of Vino's combs, though they seemed to have plenty of food. The key phrase for me was "I treated in October", but who knows.

Whole year was a catalogue of disasters.

Severe spring weather running through to May followed by a dearth all summer. In his own words, the bees were 'desperate' all season yet he only fed the nucs. He just watched the full colonies struggling.
Come August he slammed in gallons of feed which is still all there because by then there weren't enough bees in the hive to process/eat it. How did the winter bees get bred with the summer bees struggling to hang on? And that's without counting the varroois.

Picked up a few dead bees with about 5 mites on each. Five minutes later is shaking his head saying I don't know what happened but my 'spidy sense' tells me it might have been varroa.

The OA didn't work, he said, because the bees out foraging that day missed out on it! So write that off and back to Apistan next year.

Will he learn from the experience? Seems too much in denial of his own culpability. Three new packages ordered for May and will move on.

 

[mbc]

Whole year was a catalogue of disasters.

Severe spring weather running through to May followed by a dearth all summer. In his own words, the bees were 'desperate' all season yet he only fed the nucs. He just watched the full colonies struggling.
Come August he slammed in gallons of feed which is still all there because by then there weren't enough bees in the hive to process/eat it. How did the winter bees get bred with the summer bees struggling to hang on? And that's without counting the varroois.

Picked up a few dead bees with about 5 mites on each. Five minutes later is shaking his head saying I don't know what happened but my 'spidy sense' tells me it might have been varroa.

The OA didn't work, he said, because the bees out foraging that day missed out on it! So write that off and back to Apistan next year.

Will he learn from the experience? Seems too much in denial of his own culpability. Three new packages ordered for May and will move on.

Yeah, though my own experience in west Wales suggest protein supplement doesn't help, his description of his season brought to mind the "fat bees, skinny bees" article I read years ago which suggested an autumn protein supplement gave good bang for your buck.

 

[madasafish]

The surprising thing though, is how many others reported losing all their hives too (up to 30!) in the comments.

Not really. US winter losses are huge - mainly hobby beekeepers - many of whom do not treat.

" Over the past winter, 37% of honeybee colonies were lost to beekeepers, the worst winter decline recorded in the 13-year history of a nationwide survey aimed at charting bees' fortunes. Overall, 40% of colonies died off over the entire year to April, which is above the 38% average since the survey began. "
https://tinyurl.com/yzpja6y5

 

[pargyle]

As far as varroa treatment is concerned, they got MAQS strips in August after harvest, and OA vaping in December, v low drop after that.

You see ... this is what worries me - clearly there are signs of varroa in the photos of the frames so (and I'm in no way being judgemental) either you did not carry out the treatments correctly or one or the other did not do the job it should have done.

I think that the drop on the board is probably not the best indicator ... as you know, my bees are not treated for varroa but I do regular sugar rolls which give me an accurate view of the varroa levels in the colony.

In the light of your experience perhaps relying on the drop on the inspection board is not sufficiently reliable and you should be doing a sugar roll after treatment to be sure.

I would also be looking back at how the treatments you did were carried out... MAQS is a notoriously difficult treatment to get right .. it has form for killing bees and affecting queens. If the treatment affected your queen at that critical time when she needed to be laying up winter bees then it may have affected the colony adversely going in to winter and the resultant death may not have been solely attributable to varroa. The signs of varroa in the frame photos may have been residual from pre-and post treatment at the end of August and what you saw was a colony that was principally the remnants of summer bees and not the winter bees you would want in place. Death in those cicumstances could be inevitable. The lack of a varroa drop after your December vape would also be explained.

A weakened colony is stressed and susceptible to all sorts of influence that weaken it further, once the downward spiral starts it is surprising how quickly a colony fails. I'm sure we have all seen it in some form or another.

Perhaps a rethink of how you treat next season is the positive to take from this situation and put the loss behind you - bees die, it happens - move on.

 

[North End Bees]

" Over the past winter, 37% of honeybee colonies were lost to beekeepers, the worst winter decline recorded in the 13-year history of a nationwide survey aimed at charting bees' fortunes. Overall, 40% of colonies died off over the entire year to April, which is above the 38% average since the survey began. "

Well, to lose 40% is bad enough but Vino lost just short of 100%.

I appreciate the weather was poor but you need to up your game in adverse circumstances, not just use it as an excuse for a write-off.

He's only a couple of hours away from Mike Palmer. Perhaps they should compare notes?

 

[gmonag]

"To lose one hive, Mr Worthing, may be regarded as a misfortune; to lose 40% of them looks like carelessness"

Apologies to Oscar Wilde

 

[Erichalfbee]

You see ... this is what worries me - clearly there are signs of varroa in the photos of the frames so (and I'm in no way being judgemental) either you did not carry out the treatments correctly or one or the other did not do the job it should have done.

I think that the drop on the board is probably not the best indicator ... as you know, my bees are not treated for varroa but I do regular sugar rolls which give me an accurate view of the varroa levels in the colony.

In the light of your experience perhaps relying on the drop on the inspection board is not sufficiently reliable and you should be doing a sugar roll after treatment to be sure.

I would also be looking back at how the treatments you did were carried out... MAQS is a notoriously difficult treatment to get right .. it has form for killing bees and affecting queens. If the treatment affected your queen at that critical time when she needed to be laying up winter bees then it may have affected the colony adversely going in to winter and the resultant death may not have been solely attributable to varroa. The signs of varroa in the frame photos may have been residual from pre-and post treatment at the end of August and what you saw was a colony that was principally the remnants of summer bees and not the winter bees you would want in place. Death in those cicumstances could be inevitable. The lack of a varroa drop after your December vape would also be explained.

A weakened colony is stressed and susceptible to all sorts of influence that weaken it further, once the downward spiral starts it is surprising how quickly a colony fails. I'm sure we have all seen it in some form or another.

Perhaps a rethink of how you treat next season is the positive to take from this situation and put the loss behind you - bees die, it happens - move on.

Apropos of checking after your autumn treatment I always do an accelerated drop a month after the last vape

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

MAQS is a notoriously difficult treatment to get right .. it has form for killing bees and affecting queens. If the treatment affected your queen at that critical time when she needed to be laying up winter bees then it may have affected the colony adversely going in to winter

 

[madasafish]

... MAQS is a notoriously difficult treatment to get right .. it has form for killing bees and affecting queens. If the treatment affected your queen at that critical time when she needed to be laying up winter bees then it may have affected the colony adversely going in to winter and the resultant death may not have been solely attributable to varroa.

I have used MAQs on all my hives and nucs. in 2019 . I religiously followed the instructions.
No issues with dead bees/queens or varroa afterwards.

Mind you, instructions are based on Lang sizes.. Doses have to be adjusted for the smaller size of a National. (and indeed nucs)

 

[GuyNir]

I saw that video, he treated with an oxalic vape in October, no mention of repeated vapes or mid winter, he then goes on to leave stores frames from dead outs resting on the front of his remaining colony to "help" them. The lad seems quite nice so I hope he learns how to look after bees a bit better for the future.

Nice guy but too obsessed with his Vivaldi boards, as if it’s the cure for everything in life.

 

[HarryO]

I have used MAQs on Nationals since it was launched in UK without any issues with its use. Plenty of ventilation (open entrance, OMF, empty super on brood box, healthy sized colony etc. Follow instructions). Also I put on early evening to avoid higher daytime temps so slower release (that is my theory anyway)
MAQs does have its benefits, (quick, temp. range, use with honey stores, etc.) as part of treatment regime. (Expensive?). Hope I continue to not experience any problems with its use.