Another lost colony story

[oliver90owner]

Nosema is a distinct possibility. Often associated with colony death after winter oxalic trickling. Nosemic queens stop laying. I would suggest my one word suggestion, earlier, is likely the culprit. Other suggestions appear to be non-starters. It’s not a pile of bees under the frames.

Certainly pics of frames might help, but checking for nosema in the other colonies may prevent further losses without any reason.

I was more than mildly surprised that nobody else had suggested it before my post. That was my first thought, after reading the thread. I reckon better than 80%, on the available evidence thus far.

 

[manek]

Manek still hasn't showed any pics of frames, the forum may have more of an idea if some evidence was put forward to rule out other possibilities.
Did the colony have any brood present ?

Sorry, I will need to make another trip to the apiary to remove and clear out the hive, and I'll take photos of the frames then. Later today or tomorrow, probably.

 

[Boston Bees]

Nosema is a distinct possibility. Often associated with colony death after winter oxalic trickling. Nosemic queens stop laying. I would suggest my one word suggestion, earlier, is likely the culprit. Other suggestions appear to be non-starters. It’s not a pile of bees under the frames.

Certainly pics of frames might help, but checking for nosema in the other colonies may prevent further losses without any reason.

I was more than mildly surprised that nobody else had suggested it before my post. That was my first thought, after reading the thread. I reckon better than 80%, on the available evidence thus far.

I am still learning about nosema and am intrigued by your certainty. Which bits of available evidence give you 80% certainty of nosema?

I am a bit confused by your "It’s not a pile of bees under the frames." statement, given that there is a pile of bees under the frames? Did you mean something else?

Thanks in advance.

 

[oliver90owner]

Which bits of available evidence give you 80% certainty of nosema?

All from my observations on this thread. The number of alternatives is diminishing.

You might see those dead bees as a pile. I don’t (not from what I observed from the pic).

 

[ericbeaumont]

I am a bit confused by your "It’s not a pile of bees under the frames."

I read it as It's not just a pile and guessed that he forgot to include just.

 

[manek]

No, it was a carpet, evenly spread across the entire floor.

 

[Boston Bees]

Which bits of available evidence give you 80% certainty of nosema?

All from my observations on this thread.

Could you be a little more specific as to the reasons for the certainty of the diagnosis?

You mentioned OA trickle as one of your reasons for diagnosing this, but manek said he OA vaped. So I am just curious. Thanks

 

[pargyle]

No he didn't... he was just saying that OA trickling can be a cause of nosema...the bees digest the thymolised syrup and it weakens them ...weakened bees often succumb to Nosema.

In this case ...as Manek had vaped them then the chances of it being Varroa are lessened...and if they did not starve then the obvious cause that drops out is Nosema and if there are no signs if dysentery then Nosema Ceranae becomes a possibility for the dead out ...

 

[BugsInABox]

No he didn't... he was just saying that OA trickling can be a cause of nosema...the bees digest the thymolised syrup and it weakens them ...weakened bees often succumb to Nosema.

In this case ...as Manek had vaped them then the chances of it being Varroa are lessened...and if they did not starve then the obvious cause that drops out is Nosema and if there are no signs if dysentery then Nosema Ceranae becomes a possibility for the dead out ...

I though nosema caused dysentery.
Confused!
Neil

 

[Erichalfbee]

I though nosema caused dysentery.
Confused!
Neil

N apis does. N ceranae doesn’t
http://scientificbeekeeping.com/the-nosema-twins-part-1/

 

[BugsInABox]

N apis does. N ceranae doesn’t
http://scientificbeekeeping.com/the-nosema-twins-part-1/

Ding, new fact learnt.
With thanks.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

What you also get with ceranae is that the bees losing their 'homing' skills/abilities so, when the weather is good enough for bees to fly and try and forage, they get lost and never return to the hive so what you witness in the hive is that, combined with the fact that the queen's laying rate is seriously decreased, the colony slowly dwindles until, one day, you realise that the colony is dead with the hive virtually vacated.
Went to a very interesting lecture on the subject given by Prof. Nanetti at the spring convention a few years ago. He gave two or three talks that year which meant that at least the weekend wasn't a complete washout as far as worthwhile lectures went.

 

[ericbeaumont]

I though nosema caused dysentery.

Dysentery can be caused by fermented stores.

 

[oliver90owner]

BB,

You (and nearly everyone else) needs to read my posts carefully. Phil, Dani and a few others (including bugsinabox?) already know this. I try to write my posts specifically to mean exactly what I write. I don’t always achieve that, but do try.

If it makes you think, all the better as that is a good attribute for a beekeeper to develop. Personally I only believe what is written - which is why I carefully analyse what politicians (for example) might spout, to understand that they generally don't actually answer the question posed. Same applies to information offered on this forum, of course.

You will note that I never mentioned ‘certainty’. I prefer the term ‘probability’. Certainty is 100% definite on my probability scale. I just think nosema is now the most likely cause on my probability scale.

We don’t, I think (without checking) that the OP actually expanded on his meaning of ‘vaped’. It could mean it was carried out just once (where most mites could be within sealed brood cells) or it could mean the mite drop was low after three successive vapes at around 5 day intervals (to ensure all the mites in the hive were dosed at the phoretic stage of its life cycle).

You might understand that the former version could mean quite a high varroa load, shortly afterwards, if there was a lot of capped brood present at the time of a single vape.

Regarding the nosema comment, if nosema goes un-diagnosed and/or un-treated, oxalic acid has been implicated (by trickling only, as far as I know) in worsening colony survival over the winter period. It has been mentioned several times on this forum by at least one very experienced member. Nosema is not always a fatal disease, even if not treated, but really needs addressing to avoid future infections or rammifications.

Winter problems/losses due to nosema are clearly identifiable if the bees show signs of dysentery - either internally or externally on hive surfaces. Colonies might die without that sign and the ceranae version is mostly, if not always, the culprit in instances without obvious signs of dysentery.

Remember, as I have said many times, beekeeping is easy - especially if the beekeeper thinks carefully, before acting, and applies the KISS principle when the do.

 

[manek]

Finally got to the apiary today, removed the hive, cleaned everything up and took some photos. One of them shows bees emerging from brood cells. The others, not much (to me anyway), and are typical of the brood frames. See what you make of them.

 

[mbc]

Finally got to the apiary today, removed the hive, cleaned everything up and took some photos. One of them shows bees emerging from brood cells. The others, not much (to me anyway), and are typical of the brood frames. See what you make of them.

Varroa for me

 

[madasafish]

I see varroa poo in the first photo and perforated cell cappings.

Varroa is the most likely cause from the photos I have seen.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I'll third that

 

[Finman]

. I would say varroa in pictures

 

[manek]

Thank you for the help and advice. Looks like my IPM (MAQS in August+OA vape in December) wasn't good enough.