And so it begins

[Swarm]

Best of both worlds. I snipped out the big plastic grid and spent a couple of minutes threading up a cage across it. Hopefully tomorrow I'll prove it works and have a lovely marked queen.
Decided I'd rather sit on a plastic cage than one of the vicious ones with brass/steel sins.

Well just a word of advice, if she is a new queen leave her alone. Don't take marking queens lightly, especially new, young queens, they are delicate and accidents can happen.
You don't need to find her until next Spring, find her then when there are less bees and she is mature.
Regardless of marking methods some will just expire before your eyes. Not crushed, not skewered, as if the stress is too much for them.
I've had this happen twice, with a crown and also with a tube and I can tell you it's not a nice feeling. But for your selfish action a beautiful, healthy creature has lost its life.

 

[pnkemp]

Well just a word of advice, if she is a new queen leave her alone. Don't take marking queens lightly, especially new, young queens, they are delicate and accidents can happen.
You don't need to find her until next Spring, find her then when there are less bees and she is mature.
Regardless of marking methods some will just expire before your eyes. Not crushed, not skewered, as if the stress is too much for them.
I've had this happen twice, with a crown and also with a tube and I can tell you it's not a nice feeling. But for your selfish action a beautiful, healthy creature has lost its life.

Fear not, at the inspection today I let my friend who is learning with me try to catch her in a tube and she led him a merry dance Around the comb before disappearing back down between frames so she is safe for now.

About 3 weeks in and all 6 frames are 1/3 fully drawn and stuffed with brood, mostly capped (and some emerging before our eyes which was amazing to see), 1/3 partially drawn, mostly with stores, and 1/3 not yet drawn. Still about 1 litre in the feeder (I gave them about 3 of 1:1 to help draw the frames) so I left that on. Comb now pretty straight so only had to trim a tiny bit.

Still very relaxed ladies, which is handy as I still suck at keeping the smoker lit.

Love this hobby.

 

[pnkemp]

Well the nuc is now pretty much built out and getting busy so we will transfer to the National next weekend.
Finally managed to trap her Majesty in the plastic crown of thorns with the grid cut out and replaced with thread. So she's now marked which should make life easier.

One new lesson. They were still ok during the inspection, but about half an hour later I was about 20 yards from the hive and one guard bee decided I was a very bad bear and dived into my tshirt. I managed to thrash it off without getting stung, but I'm not wearing black tshirts on inspection days again!

 

[masterBK]

Have to disagree with "Swarm". Beginner beekeepers (and others more experienced.) accidently kill loads of unmarked queens by crushing them during manipulation or flipping them off the combs into the undergrowth as they turn the frames. They are far less likely to kill a marked queen as they are more likely to notice her on the comb. Queens are not that delicate and I have been marking queens for nearly 60 years without any obvious problems. Why are people so scared of doing it? If worried practise on loads of drones til you get confident at it (but kill them afterwards otherwise drones with spots on will turn up in other peoples colonies !).

 

[Murox]

Well just a word of advice, if she is a new queen leave her alone. Don't take marking queens lightly, especially new, young queens, they are delicate and accidents can happen.
You don't need to find her until next Spring, find her then when there are less bees and she is mature.
Regardless of marking methods some will just expire before your eyes. Not crushed, not skewered, as if the stress is too much for them.
I've had this happen twice, with a crown and also with a tube and I can tell you it's not a nice feeling. But for your selfish action a beautiful, healthy creature has lost its life.

Yep, if your rubbish at seeing the queen in the first place like me, its much easier to spot a mature queen then. I nearly always mark mine then.

 

[JonnyPicklechin]

Well just a word of advice, if she is a new queen leave her alone. Don't take marking queens lightly, especially new, young queens, they are delicate and accidents can happen.
You don't need to find her until next Spring, find her then when there are less bees and she is mature.
Regardless of marking methods some will just expire before your eyes. Not crushed, not skewered, as if the stress is too much for them.
I've had this happen twice, with a crown and also with a tube and I can tell you it's not a nice feeling. But for your selfish action a beautiful, healthy creature has lost its life.

This is useful. I have noticed fragility about young queens that have resulted in some "Ach Scheisse!" moments. What sort of age, as a general rule, would you advise the let the queen get to before she is considered "more robust"?

QUOTE from masterBK:
Have to disagree with "Swarm". Beginner beekeepers (and others more experienced.) accidently kill loads of unmarked queens by crushing them during manipulation or flipping them off the combs into the undergrowth as they turn the frames. They are far less likely to kill a marked queen as they are more likely to notice her on the comb. Queens are not that delicate and I have been marking queens for nearly 60 years without any obvious problems. Why are people so scared of doing it? If worried practise on loads of drones til you get confident at it (but kill them afterwards otherwise drones with spots on will turn up in other peoples colonies !).

Given the is a split opinion, same question? Manipulate immediately she is laying?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

This is useful. I have noticed fragility about young queens that have resulted in some "Ach Scheisse!" moments. What sort of age, as a general rule, would you advise the let the queen get to before she is considered "more robust"?

Given the is a split opinion, same question? Manipulate immediately she is laying?

Once you have sealed worker brood in the hive, it's fine to catch the queen and mark her

 

[Swarm]

MasterBK, it has nothing to do with being 'scared'.
I've never known anyone be so cack handed as to flip a queen off a frame and into the grass. I guess there are all sorts and some who take rough handling to the limit but generally the people I know are careful with their manipulations.
Of course a good Hoffman bar will take out a queen as well as any other bee but no paint would save her from that.
Like Murox just pointed out, far less bees in Spring so that's one good reason.

People advise to let new, young queens find their feet, no need to go pulling the hive about, leave her alone to establish herself. Oh, but while you're there slap a bit of paint on her, no problem with that. There's no rush and queens can be found regardless of marks.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I've never known anyone be so cack handed as to flip a queen off a frame and into the grass.

I don't know - the accepted contortions required to turn the frame over to see the other side give plenty of opportunity to launch her, I just tilt the frame slightly and look down across the top bar to view the opposite side.

 

[pnkemp]

Our decision to mark the queen was after spotting her easily before the brood started emerging it was getting harder and harder and last week we didn’t spot her at all.

So when we saw her this week we had her under the cage in a flash. Not a clean mark, but enough that she should be far easier to spot next week.
I did get a few workers u Dee the cage at the same time as her Maj, but still worked fine. Quite pleased that the bodged thread grid worked so well actually.

 

[The Poot in Somerset]

Well done - it must be a little unnerving. I would attempt it if I could ever find a queen!!

 

[pnkemp]

Well done - it must be a little unnerving. I would attempt it if I could ever find a queen!!

It was pretty tense. There was me, my friend who is learning with me and who hosts the hive, and both his kids watching in their adorable looking suits and getting very excitable.

 

[beeno]

It was pretty tense. There was me, my friend who is learning with me and who hosts the hive, and both his kids watching in their adorable looking suits and getting very excitable.

Picture perfect!

 

[beeno]

It would be much better if all these people that cannot see eggs and cannot find the queens could get some assistance with marking the queens and then concentrate on becoming diligent in finding QC.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Why?

 

[The Poot in Somerset]

It would be much better if all these people that cannot see eggs and cannot find the queens could get some assistance with marking the queens and then concentrate on becoming diligent in finding QC.

Hi Beeno,
I guess that was aimed at me. Fair do's.
I had the help to find and mark my queens organised for this year, a local very experienced beek, but some small thing prevented it.......
I moved house and lost my contacts a couple of years ago and full time work was an issue, but I'm retiring at this month end and hope to become more capable with more time to devote to the craft.
Incidentally, I have no problem finding queen cells

 

[pargyle]

Hi Beeno,
I guess that was aimed at me. Fair do's.
I had the help to find and mark my queens organised for this year, a local very experienced beek, but some small thing prevented it.......
I moved house and lost my contacts a couple of years ago and full time work was an issue, but I'm retiring at this month end and hope to become more capable with more time to devote to the craft.
Incidentally, I have no problem finding queen cells

Finding the queen is a grossly overrated beekeeping pastime ... marked or unmarked, there is only the odd occasion when you actually NEED to find the queen. The rest of the time the sight of fresh eggs and brood is more than adequate for normal inspections. I still see beekeepers with years of experience trawling through frames desperate to find the queen .. when all they are doing it for is to tick the box on their record cards 'Queen seen' Tick ....

All that is achieved is the colony is disturbed more than it needs to be, they spend time repairing the damage, stress levels in the colony increase (and the susceptibility to disease). Fools game IMHO.

Inspect yes .. but be sure what you want to achieve and stop when you have achieved it.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Finding the queen is a grossly overrated beekeeping pastime ... marked or unmarked, there is only the odd occasion when you actually NEED to find the queen. The rest of the time the sight of fresh eggs and brood is more than adequate for normal inspections. I still see beekeepers with years of experience trawling through frames desperate to find the queen .. when all they are doing it for is to tick the box on their record cards 'Queen seen' Tick ....

All that is achieved is the colony is disturbed more than it needs to be, they spend time repairing the damage, stress levels in the colony increase (and the susceptibility to disease). Fools game IMHO.

Inspect yes .. but be sure what you want to achieve and stop when you have achieved it.

And of course there is the mistaken belief that marking the queen makes her easier to spot - but what happens when the beekeeper is frantically hunting for their green/blue/white/yellow/red or whatever spot (not queen, mark you)when the paint has worn off, or the queen has been superseded?

 

[Erichalfbee]

twice
Hardly ever bother looking for her and when I do see her it’s usually out of the corner of my eye.

 

[pargyle]

twice
Hardly ever bother looking for her and when I do see her it’s usually out of the corner of my eye.

My favourite queen was one I had for two seasons, bred from a split .. whenever I inspected the colony she used to come up to the top bars and sit there looking at me. Lovely bees - so calm and easy to handle. Absolutely useless queen .. never managed more than a couple of frames of brood - they went from nuc to colony to nuc about four times. If I was a proper beekeeper she would have gone to the gatepost but I just didn't have the heart to do it ... the colony finally gave up on her and superceded - sadly far too late in the year and the new queen never got going. I eventually combined what was left with another colony.