Anaphylactic shock

[bushman1872]

If were going into DIY medicine can I prefer to try out a tracheotomy? I carry round a biro and scalpel just in case. Also I've heard removing a kidney can help in these cases. As it's an honest belief that I'm acting in their best interests can I try that out too?

get some common sense it appears you have none!!

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

Am I right in thinking the epipen has a "best before" of around a year, so would need replacing regularly?

 

[drstitson]

yes - they do have a limited shelf life (apparently they are a special formulation as bog standard adrenaline vials are meant to be stored at <15C).

am aware of one patient who mistakenly got given a new one with every repeat prescription of other meds!!!! maybe she was selling to beeks on ebay!

 

[Spadaman]

Hi
I am a NewBee ( or more accurately a NoBees Yet ) here and this is my first post. I have handled bees before ( during my intro beekeeping course last year) but I have not yet been stung so do not know if I might suffer from Annie Shock.

I know that Annie Shock is serious stuff and this thread has just reinforced it but raises a couple of questions. Should I put an Epi pen on my list of essential kit to buy? Where do you get them from?

A quick "google" suggests anything from £20 to £100 each and some comments suggest that they can only be obtained with a doctors prescription. I can understand a doctor prescribing ephidrine when the patient is succeptable but not if I just pop along and say I am starting to keep bees.

Any advice would be gratefully received.

PS - Also wanted to say what a great website/forum this is - loads of good (if not conflicting ! ) advice.

Regards
Bill

 

[hedgerow pete]

1, dont worry about buying or getting an epi pen, if you need one you can get it for the price of a perscription.

2, i caused great outrage last year by suggesting that after the first visit to the be shed i get on of the girles to sting my new bees for this very reason.

3, its very rare that someone does not know that they are inclinde to annie shock from bees, most will find that depending on how much juice is pushed in dictates the stings damage.

most of the bad reactions are from people who are more sensitive than others.

bee sting too me is average small swelling where as a wasp sting is able to turn my great movie looks into some thing very ugly ,well more than normal anyway

 

[oliver90owner]

Spadaman,

Welcome to the forum.

Take your Doctor's advice is my advice, where medical advice is concerned.

Regards, RAB

 

[merylvingien]

Wasp stings are generally worse anyway, especially if the wasp is an older one, their sting sacks become infected with all sorts of nasties when they are traipsing through shite hunting all day!

 

[Spadaman]

Cheers Guys. Thanks for the advice.

I think Hedgerow Pete's advice about deliberately getting the Newbees stung is a great idea - at least it lets them know if beekeeping is going to work out for them both in terms of pain and Annie Shock. We did n't go that far at the training course that I did although a few people on the course got stung , mainly due to poor fitting or missing personal protective equipment ( e.g. no wellies).

Not so sure about his comment that if I need an Api pen I can get one on prescription. I guess that if I need one I will only know that following a bee sting and by then it will be too late to make an appointment with the Quack.

Actually, I am not too worried either way. I only hope that I am not affected by Annie Shock as I am really looking forward to starting with some bees and the odd sting here and there will take my mind off all the other "ailments".

Thanks again
Bill

 

[hedgerow pete]

go to your quack and ask to be tested for allergies inc bee stings, its done at the hospital and they check for the main offenders

 

[bushman1872]

The only thing I would say to everyone new beek or old beek is to always carry a mobile with you, you may not be able to run for help! I guess finacially the sooner you get stung and find out what reaction you have the better, purely for the fact that if you get an anaphylatic reaction you won't have spent loads of money on lots of gucci kit.

 

[hedgerow pete]

you will be surprised by how many that do!!!

 

[Nomadickarl]

Stings.

One thing to point out is you will not have full AS on your first encounter with an allergen. The first reaction is the priming reaction. Your body will not got into AS on the first reaction as the immune system has never experienced it before so won't react other than a typical 'normal response. The second contact with the allergen will be the big one as the body as produces the appropriate immune response. So one bee sting will not prove you will suffer AS or not. The second will!

 

[drstitson]

an epi pen should only be prescribed to those with a proven life threatening allergy.

your family quack should not be prescribing these willy nilly just because you have taken up beekeeping.

 

[hedgerow pete]

your realy right driston, epi pens in the wrong hands are just as deadly as annie shock.

you are much better off asking to have allergy testing done at the hospital instead

 

[fredbloggs]

Who has had anny shock?

To add some perspective to the topic, Can i ask who has actually experienced full anny shock?

By this, i mean allergic reaction to bee stings requiring serious medical attention?

Regards

FB

 

[hedgerow pete]

i have had to deal wth one case in 30 years, but get to see a bad case of sensivetive once evert three years

 

[bushman1872]

None of you have ever been in the scouts then? What about the motto be prepared!
"your realy right driston, epi pens in the wrong hands are just as deadly as annie shock."
Have you got any proof of that what so ever! Comments like that make people think twice about doing the right thing, if your airway closes and you don't get the adrenaline you are DEAD, end of. As for fred bloggs, it doesn't matter if you see it once in a hundred years, if you see it once and don't do anything then on your conscience be it.
I am not advocating that every one has an epipen just in case, just that if some one does have an anaphylatic reaction and there is one to hand that they use it instead of worrying about potential side effects.

Life bouys are heavy pieces of kit and if you get hit on the head with one it could definately do a reasonable amount of damage, yet would you hesitate in throwing it to someone who is drowning, unlikely. Dare I say this is because we know what drownig looks like, we know what someone in distress looks like, people who are having that degree of reaction are going to be distressed, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that something major is wrong. At the end of the day you have to use your own judgement call in order to make a good call understand what it is you are looking for and don't forget that you older more experienced beeks who have been stung many times before can develop an anaphylatic reaction to a sting, so it could be your own life you save.

 

[hedgerow pete]

whilst bushman is correct i do go against the ideas tho.

if i was to prepare a building site for every form of out come to every form of accident even less than normal would happen, we see it all the time with risk statements were every thing is ending with DEATH, DEAD, DIE, KILL, MURDER

i have a first aid kit and enough brain cells to use it, i NEVER EVER have an epi pen because they are or should be that persons property not mine, if they need one, why are they dealing with bees????? that is there risk not mine so why do i have to account for it?

the random use of epi pens by people other than the regigisard owner is some thing i frown upon big style especial people who were never given one any way. may i should carry morphine at the allotment in case someone trips over a snail and breaks there neck and smashes there head open on a bee hive at the same time!!!!!!!!!!!!!

the whole point of the first part of this thread was to inform people what and how annie shock works and the best treatment you can do to help. i also covered epi pens because they aer very common to see in todays world, it was not a sales advert for epi pens ltd.

it drove me barking when it went on to peanutds but now we are keeping bees on the titanic

admin any chance of striping all the dross from the original set of posts and sealing it off, PRETTY PLEASE

 

[Nomadickarl]

Use it whatever?

I agree with Hedgerow Pete. You cannot just go around sticking needles in people and each case would need to be judged on its on merit. It does raise some serious concerns. First if you do not have a serious allergic reaction land on you then how on earth have you got access to an epi pen that is full of adrenlin? These are prescribed only, and there is a bloody good reason for this. People mentioning buying them on-line. I would love to see that court case. You stuck someone with your epipen, which you bought on-line, the injured party didn't actually have AS but another medical condition and sues you. The judges asks...well where did you get the epi-pen. I bought it off the net your honour, and you are correct I have no idea whats in it and have had no training in using it or managing the after effects which, your honour, I now know are as dangerous as the AS itself. No your honour I didn't realise the patient would need IMMEDIATE EMERGENCY medical attention after I administered the pen. Did I mention how I have had no training in that all? What do you mean the pen was out of date your honour? Do I speak from experience (yes, see previous thread) and I have had training in its application and aftercare both through work and my son i.e. get to hospital NOW. Heart attack anyone?

If you have an epi-pen (prescribed) and someone goes into AS (and you know it's AS) then the call is yours, as it always is. Can you justify it? Again your call. We are not talking about wounds, injuries, broken bones, we are talking about injecting someone with something that can cause as much harm as the the actual thing you are trying to deal with. All I ask is be careful and as I have already said, the first sting/alergen contact is not the problem but there is a good chance of some signs to say ths isn't going to go well for me if this happen again.

 

[milkermel]

I have done my basic first aid with st Johns, My only hope is that I never ever ever need to use! the responsibility far outways the feel good factor that you may be able to save someones life. In fact the course highlighted to me that we are not there to cure them, just to try and stop them from dieing before the professionals turn up!

As HP says if there is a problem 999 is the only way to go. they will advise and help whilst waiting for ambulance. Let them say if you should use epi pen or not.


Never would I be tempted to have a go, give meds or anything that wasnt prescribed to that person.

My OH looks totally well and Ok and doesnt tell many people about his various health conditions. I had to think twice about keeping my bees as one of his issues was that for a while he didnt produce adrenaline due to a tumor. wasnt sure if it could cause a problem if he got stung (but decided that he takes the risk all the time during wasp season) I had to kick and fight with him to wear a medic alert because as all the medical people will know on here that if he doesnt produce adrenaline he could just keal over if involved in an accident (well this was how it was explained to me by doc) So medics would see him as ok and not realise why he wasnt. My point is that you shouldnt treat someone unless you are either a medic/doctor as you just cant know what conditions they may have