An offer of location, bees and hives all paid for

[davemacdon]

Hi all, I have just completed my 1st season of beekeeping (but have been researching for about 3 years) and whilst visiting a hospitality business near where I work, received an enquiry regarding the possibility of the business buying some bees and hives for their roof, from which they would get local home produced honey for the business. They would buy and pay for it, with a beekeeper looking after them and basically doing all the work (Not spoken in any detail about beekeeper labour fees).

After the initial excitement of the idea, it seems a little bit like a false opportunity, but there may be a business idea there.

Now, I realise (before you tell me), I have insufficient experience to take on this offer, even though the chance to gain more experience appeals to me, I live to far from the location to be able to just pop down there if there is a problem.

Has anyone else seen or is working a similar offer/situation, and how have they used it to their advantage? I may be able to direct this potential business query to someone else for their benefit, as I dont believe I will be able to take up the offer.

I dont know if the business owner understands yet the full cost and varying honey yields and how or if it would meet his honey requirements.

There is no concrete offer just yet, it is yet to be confirmed, but may be replicated across numerous businesses in the area if successful at one???

Your thoughts and questions are welcome. i will answer as many as I can when I get the chance.

Many thanks,

Dave.

 

[dpearce4]

hi dave

what county is the offer in? it would help for others that may be interested that live closer to know.

cheers
doug

 

[davemacdon]

West London.

I didnt put the location details in initially as I wanted responses from anyone who had similar experience. It isn't an offer for any beekeepers living close, but a request for advice/information about the best way forward for an accomplished or commercial beekeeper.

I am keeping my options open for when I retire (a long time from now) and this is part of the info gathering process, but there is a slim chance of something there for someone to take up should the company decide to take it further. If so, I will be reposting for responses.

Please - if you aren't local, please do still give me your views.

Thanks,

Dave.

 

[YorkshireBees]

My own thoughts are:-

I don't initially see that the investment by the business would pay off in the amount of honey produced not even starting to take into account the time for a beekeeper to look after them!

If it was just about using locally produced honey it would make more sense for the company to contact and source honey from local beekeepers.

Alternatively if it is more the green credentials and pride of the company having honey produced by bees on their own roof then I would think it may make more sense for them to offer the space for hives to an interested beekeeper in return for a supply of honey at an agreed rate.

Again it all comes down to what the company wants to do with the honey and why they would want it from hives on their own roof!

 

[For want of a better word]

Offer to babysit a hive for them in your apiary that they pay for... if it is just local honey they want set up a honey co-op with other local beekeepers to supply them.. at no less than £10 per kilo.. any less and it is not worth the effort.

OMG>>>...A raft of problems floats onto the horizons... say a guest got stung.. would the liability rest with you or them... doubtful if the B*K* insurance would cover the costly litigation to prove or disprove your neglect!

 

[Black Comb]

I know a beek who did this for a while for a rich businessman.
After "investing2 in the hives and wages, he expected a return (i.e. honey)

 

[Skyhook]

I'm guessing they'vs got caught up in the green revolution/save the bees hype, and thought 'wouldn't it be great to give our clients our own honey from our own hives on our own roof!', in which case buying local honey doesn't do it.

For it to be worth someones time to run the hives, they would have to either share the honey, or be paid a fee- an annual fee seems more manageable than an hourly rate.

The host would have to realise (and sign a contract to the effect) that a) they may get no honey, b) the bees may die, and c) if it's AFB, the hives may be burnt.

Could be a little sideline for someone, but my guess is you could never charge enough to be worth it.

 

[Tom Bick]

I know of at least one person with a business in London that will supply the hive bees and then look after the hive for the client.

Its not cheap and you could say very expensive and from my experience he is a bit unreliable.

 

[davemacdon]

Thankyou to all who have answered so far.

Yes, It is a hotel, and the comments regarding insurance and guests getting stung is one that I was aware of and need to add to the list for the hotel owner to address. I am unsure how much honey they would want each year and therefore how many hives. The amount of roof space and the access incl carrying supers etc. to get to or from them. The best rooftop hive to use - wood or poly? Roof anchors / tie downs.

So many questions, all of which I will be listing down to make him aware of the problems that may be associated with it, without even touching on how much one would need to be paid for looking after them!!

Any other comments and suggestions still welcome as I build my list to give to the owner/manager.

Dave.

 

[alanf]

Like many business ideas this may come to nothing. However, it could be viable. I guess what the business is looking for is a burst of publicity, local paper mentions, trade papers etc. After that they get to put 'our own honey' on the menu or more realistically if the quantity is limited, they get a few jars they can present or give as souvenirs or thank yous with the company logo on. Shows more imagination than a standard 'business gift' from the catalogue.

I did see something similar in France. Municipal arts building had a couple of hives on the roof. The hives were maintained by the parks dept, which took care of a lot of the legal and risk problems. Many of the staff were enthusiasttic about it, one even showed me pictures on her phone. What they got was a stock of jars they could present to visitors, a group endeavour they could talk about and some eco brownie points. Not a commercial venture that you can quantify in pounds per jar, or even pounds per hour but that was not the aim.

Several ways to approach the contractual side:

The bees and kit are yours, established for a fixed set up fee and so much per year. They provide the site, give you access and get all or an agreed part of any honey which you provide in jars with their labels.

Alternatively, it's a training exercise. You mentor one or more of their staff through set up and the first season or two for a fee. All the kit and day to day operation is theirs.

Any agreement should include the basics of who is responsible for what, ownership, liability and insurance if something does go wrong, named contacts and access rights, notice of termination etc. It might include standards of care and other less specific factors. Whatever the fees agreed you need an idea of how many hours you are expected to put in and how that relates to a minimum wage.

Just my take on commercial agreements.

 

[Tim1606]

We have a number of colonies on a site at a hotel and have a contract with them.

The contract we have is that the equipment, bees and the honey belong to us. They have first refusal of the honey and we sell it to them in bulk or jarred as they require it. The prices are agreed and fixed in March so we all know where we stand.

The only part that they supply is the land of which they have plenty of.

The contract also states that we give each other two months notice to pull out.

For us this has worked out well so far. They have another hotel in their chain who are looking at what we are doing and may also come on board with the idea.

 

[Tim1606]

Thankyou to all who have answered so far.

Yes, It is a hotel, and the comments regarding insurance and guests getting stung is one that I was aware of and need to add to the list for the hotel owner to address.

Any other comments and suggestions still welcome as I build my list to give to the owner/manager.

Dave.

We had to do a risk assesment as well as provide public liability insurance.

We have also been asked to give a talk to the staff on the risks of being stung and what to do if they spot a swarm etc.

The hotel has told us that they would pay us for our time as well

 

[Hivemaker.]

We had to do a risk assesment as well as provide public liability insurance.

Hi Tim
what company did you get the public liability insurance from.

 

[Tim1606]

We showed them the one we get through the BBKA and they were happy with that one.

 

[beebreeder]

here is one hotel in london doing it and if you ask google there are probably more, ask them how they do it http://www.earthtimes.org/green-blo...ronmentally-friendly-hotels-london-27-Jul-11/

 

[MuswellMetro]

It becoming more common in london in their "green agenda" for comanpies to include live plant roofs,

i have been offered two "jobs" looking after beehives on roofs in Islington/Kings Cross area ( i was a Chartered surveyor so contacts in property know i keep bees) that give them extra points

in london it is not worth the hassle....parking charges, london zone emmision charge, distance parking is from the Hives.....two hives on a 9th floor roof...i looked at the location and said no!

 

[dclewis]

The company I work for is shortly to move into central Paris and they have been approached by at least 3 separate companies all offering to place bee hives on the property, manage the hives and then sell the honey to them. The prices are very high. I know as I put in a tender to the company for me to do it and I was so much cheapoer than they were, but in the end nothing has come out of it as the site has its problems. I know that one of of these companies runs hives on the Opera house in central Paris plus at the EDF tower in La Defense plus numerous other sites, so there are companies prepared to pay the high prices to get the eco friendly advertising for their report and accounts. I hear from my London colleagues that there are similar in London as they were offered the same services there before they joind the LBKA and found a mentor to help them start up without such expensive assistance.

 

[Tim1606]

Our hives are not on the roof but in the hotel grounds. A large area was set aside after agreeing between the two of us.

I had been offered to put hives on a roof before, but thought that it was not the hassle.

The way we have it at the moment, means we can come and go whenever we like, 24/7.

 

[alanf]

Our hives are not on the roof but in the hotel grounds. A large area was set aside after agreeing between the two of us.

I had been offered to put hives on a roof before, but thought that it was not the hassle.

The way we have it at the moment, means we can come and go whenever we like, 24/7.

True, but looking at the reports of thefts in other threads we may all be looking for a roof to put the hives on.