Amc in the UK - The evidence

[Murox]

Perhaps it is time to think and not quarrel. Merely continuing the pursuit of traditional opinion and habit does little to protect the gene pool of any traditional strains of Apis mellifera, against a dominant, pesticide resistant, lab-designed version.
2014 saw the world’s first genetically modified honeybee queens. 2017 saw the development of an “open source license concept” to prevent powerful corporations building a genetically engineered bee that they could then commercialise and 'protect' with patents and trademarks.....its ongoing.
And some of this commentary sounds as brittle as the ancient sacred texts of the pedantic organically dogmatised.

 

[B+.]

For some of us it's about the preservation of our indigenous sub species. Given that the colour of Amm is black, it would be a bit stupid to think that wasn't the first, very obvious, visual consideration before any other.

That's fine. You do your thing and do the rest of us the courtesy of allowing us to do ours. I have no problem with you preserving your little "enclaves". If you adopted some of the techniques I've spoken about over the years, you might even be able to do it. What I do object to is ANYONE trying to tell me what bees I can keep. I am sure that others feel the same way.

 

[Poly Hive]

I have asked Chain Bridge more than once if they would be willing to sell bees or queen or queen cells and the answer was no. It's not as if I don't know Willy either. So?

PH

 

[B+.]

Perhaps it is time to think and not quarrel. Merely continuing the pursuit of traditional opinion and habit does little to protect the gene pool of any traditional strains of Apis mellifera, against a dominant, pesticide resistant, lab-designed version.
2014 saw the world’s first genetically modified honeybee queens. 2017 saw the development of an “open source license concept” to prevent powerful corporations building a genetically engineered bee that they could then commercialise and 'protect' with patents and trademarks.....its ongoing.
And some of this commentary sounds as brittle as the ancient sacred texts of the pedantic organically dogmatised.

What are you smoking? Who said anything about genetic modification? All I am talking about is selective breeding. The same thing that mankind has done with domestic stock for millennia (except, with a bit more science behind it). The arguments become more and more extreme....but I still haven't heard an objective fact. Just the usual propaganda, scare stories and pixie dust.

 

[mbc]

I have asked Chain Bridge more than once if they would be willing to sell bees or queen or queen cells and the answer was no. It's not as if I don't know Willy either. So?

PH

That's your problem right there, Willy knows you.

 

[Swarm]

That's fine. You do your thing and do the rest of us the courtesy of allowing us to do ours. I have no problem with you preserving your little "enclaves". If you adopted some of the techniques I've spoken about over the years, you might even be able to do it. What I do object to is ANYONE trying to tell me what bees I can keep. I am sure that others feel the same way.

As I see it, the constant influx of foreign bees is the major problem and here you go again with your patronising tone. You obviously have a very inflated opinion of yourself.
Without adopting any of your(?) techniques it is and has been done and naturally. The problems arise when foreign bees are introduced by selfish beekeepers. Willful destruction of a native population just because they can, even total novices.
These foreign bees cannot be sustained, another thing overlooked by novices, all they do is ruin the local population for a couple of years until they fizzle out. Then along comes the next flavour.

Too right I'd welcome an import ban, it's long overdue.

 

[B+.]

As I see it, the constant influx of foreign bees is the major problem and here you go again with your patronising tone. You obviously have a very inflated opinion of yourself.
Without adopting any of your(?) techniques it is and has been done and naturally. The problems arise when foreign bees are introduced by selfish beekeepers. Willful destruction of a native population just because they can, even total novices.
These foreign bees cannot be sustained, another thing overlooked by novices, all they do is ruin the local population for a couple of years until they fizzle out. Then along comes the next flavour.

Too right I'd welcome an import ban, it's long overdue.

You obviously weren't paying attention earlier when I said:
Year 0 - Introduce my own lines to nucs or queens from other breeders in the programme
Year 1 - Test overwintered queens in their own colonies. Test results entered into www.beebreed.eu at the end of the season.
Year 2 - Breeding values/inbreeding coefficients/etc are calculated and published mid-February. Exceptional queens with particularly high breeding values may be selected as 2a (breeder) queens.
Year 3 - Truly exceptional queens are selected as 4a sires for mating stations or, possibly 1b, sires for instrumental insemination of experimental/development lines.

I ask again, how many of your queens survive (let alone prosper) enough to produce healthy, vigorous drones after 2-3 winters without treatments for varroa?
My own lines have never seen another county, let alone country. They are as local as I am! In fact, more so!

Too right I am pleased with them! A lot of work over many years has gone into them - not just myself but all the other breeders who have contributed to their development. As I say in my tag-line; I am standing on the shoulders of giants - just as Isaac Newton did.

 

[Murox]

What are you smoking? Who said anything about genetic modification? All I am talking about is selective breeding. The same thing that mankind has done with domestic stock for millennia (except, with a bit more science behind it). The arguments become more and more extreme....but I still haven't heard an objective fact. Just the usual propaganda, scare stories and pixie dust.

There is so much common ground between you, I do wonder why the polarised race to the cliff? My point was simply, there is a bigger issue.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

As I say in my tag-line; I am standing on the shoulders of giants - just as Isaac Newton did.

the sheer arrogance and delusion of the zealot

 

[B+.]

the sheer arrogance and delusion of the zealot

Not at all. We all owe everything to those that contributed to our work before us. IMHO, it is the height of arrogance not to admit it!

 

[Erichalfbee]

Right
Enough mud slinging.
“ Time for bed” said Zebedee