Alternatives to Buckfast bees

[Finman]

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Even if biology have absolute facts, nex year it may be another absolute fact.

But one is sure: Pike is a fish..

 

[Motobiman]

Just trying to get a handle on this, thanks.

Having been scorched on here several times already, it's obvious that questions have to be absolute if tangents are not to be explored every time.

In some organisms inherited traits are prevailant and I recognise that in the super organism that is a bee colony there are more variables.

For example a spaniels natural instinct is always to hunt and a retrievers to always retrieve.

I am trying to get some understanding of how much a naturally passive colony will become aggressive towards the beek due to his handing frequency, methods and ability rather than from the parents genetics.

 

[B+.]

I am trying to get some understanding of how much a naturally passive colony will become aggressive towards the beek due to his handing frequency, methods and ability rather than from the parents genetics.

That is true Motobiman, and it is very frustrating when you are looking for a straight answer to a serious question and get nonsense replies.
I didn't touch on dominance, co-dominance, etc because that is taking things to a whole new level and I wanted to keep my answer brief.

This may help http://beesource.com/resources/usda/breeding-and-genetics-of-honey-bees/

then look at https://www.researchgate.net/public...and_swarming_behaviour_in_Austrian_honey_bees

 

[Poly Hive]

As for no islands?

My map shows rather a few.

Mull for a start and take it from there.

PH

 

[Finman]

I am trying to get some understanding of how much a naturally passive colony will become aggressive towards the beek due to his handing frequency, methods and ability rather than from the parents genetics.

You will never get that answer, and if you get it, you do nothing with it.

Bee trains are tens, and they react different way on nursing operations. One example is when you move hives to outer pastures. When you open transport mesh, some colonies explose and you must run for your life, and some do nothing.

You get understwnding when you nurse different bee strains along years.

 

[Motobiman]

Thanks Finman I'm beginning to grasp that.

Suck it and see has never been my natural tendency, but I can still learn.

 

[Fusion_power]

I am trying to get some understanding of how much a naturally passive colony will become aggressive towards the beek due to his handing frequency, methods and ability rather than from the parents genetics.

On a given day with a natural nectar flow, a colony may be very mild tempered. The same colony during a nectar drought might eat you alive.

I've found that the drones a queen mates with are all important when it comes to colony temper. Two generations of mating to drones selected for gentle temper will usually produce queens that head mild tempered colonies.

 

[B+.]

I've found that the drones a queen mates with are all important when it comes to colony temper. Two generations of mating to drones selected for gentle temper will usually produce queens that head mild tempered colonies.

Except that you should focus on the queen that laid the drone egg (1b) and that queens mother(4a). This is the paternal line of the pedigree and you can test the colonies produced by these queens for qualities that you can't observe in drones (foraging ability, nursing ability, defensiveness, etc)

 

[sherwood]

You have to bare in mind the characteristics of any subsequent queens are 50% governed by the drones sperm with which she ferilises an egg with and she may have mated with in excess of 17 drones. So an f1s or an f2s from the same queen can vary vastly in behaviour

 

[Finman]

, but I can still learn.

Even cock lays eggs if it has to

.

 

[B+.]

the characteristics of any subsequent queens are 50% governed by the drones sperm with which she ferilises an egg with and she may have mated with in excess of 17 drones.

If they are all sisters (i.e. daughters of the same queen) the drones are effectively the same because they receive all 16 chromosomes from their mother. This is how things are done on the island mating stations

 

[Finman]

On a given day with a natural nectar flow, a colony may be very mild tempered. The same colony during a nectar drought might eat you alive.
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But when you select enough, you do not need stand those man eaters. That was 30 years ago, when we had everywhere Black bees. The varroa killed them all and peace landed over beekeeping.

When some bad ass eppears, and they do, I squeeze such. No genetics, no F generations. Just two fingers.

When I had bad *****, I nursed such last. If you nurse first, then you stink poison, and all hives are alarmed and give stings.

 

[For want of a better word]

But when you select enough, you do not need stand those man eaters. That was 30 years ago, when we had everywhere Black bees. The varroa killed them all and peace landed over beekeeping.

When some bad ass eppears, and they do, I squeeze such. No genetics, no F generations. Just two fingers.

When I had bad *****, I nursed such last. If you nurse first, then you stink poison, and all hives are alarmed and give stings.

Wold like to address the point that the Black bees in Finland were probably a Russian Carnolian / Cuicasion bee and nothing similar to the endemic black bee native to the British Isles.. according to Cooper??

Yeghes da

 

[Finman]

Wold like to address the point that the Black bees in Finland were probably a Russian Carnolian / Cuicasion bee and nothing similar to the endemic black bee native to the British Isles.. according to Cooper??

Yeghes da

They were normal German Black Bee. Neither Caucasian nor Carniolan..

Vain to talk about endemic on British Isles. You have bought so much animals and plants from rest of world.

When I visited on England, I brought Corydalis solida pulps to Milton Keynes. I hope that it has spreaded there well.

 

[Fusion_power]

The description of Finman's black bees matches the black bees I grew up with. They built up enormously fast in spring, flew in adverse weather more than any other bee, swarmed at the drop of a hat, and could be vicious if mis-handled. There was never a problem with wintering them, they might use 10 pounds of honey over winter and then were ready to go as soon as pollen was available in spring. I miss a few of their traits, but I don't miss the bees.

 

[Finman]

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The dream to fly in bad weathers is a bad feature in bee strains. It risks all the time its life when it flies on the border of abilities. Losses in bad weathers are huge.
But a black bee like Carniolan goes better in cool weather than Italian. Their black body absorbs sun heat radiation better.

I miss nothing in Black Bees. It is nothing compared to modern breeds.

Every bee strain fly in low weathers, but plants do not make nectar. Once I went to take hives to home for wintering. Sun was rising and temp was 11C. There was huge traffic in hives. Trees had honey few on their leaves and night mist had diluted the stuff.

I wonder what fantasy it is to fly in bad weathers. Actually they bring water to larvae. If you carry your bees to good pastures, they fill your hives in couple of weeks.

My professorissional friend reared this spring queens. His first four virgins succeeded so that 3 were lost and the fourth had not nated. Propably rain shower hit those 3 down.
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[Finman]

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Black Bee has been imported to every continent, but it is everywhere abandoned in commercial honey production. Perhaps it has been noticed that i could be best in venom production.

Gene mapping has spoiled the whole Black Bee legenda beauty. 20 years ago it was thought that Black Bee is the oldst and original bee race in Europe and in the world. Now we know that it is youngest bee race which arrived from Africa. It has most African genes among European bees.
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But The Dream must live on....

 

[Motobiman]

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Black Bee has been imported to every continent, but it is everywhere abandoned in commercial honey production.

its not all about honey production.

In which case why should it be so important to breed bees that produce loads of honey if other desirable traits are suppressed?

 

[pargyle]

Mine are mostly small black bees - mainly stem from a local mongrel swarm - they are fine to handle, I've rarely had any signs of aggression from them and if I have it's only been the result of clumsy handling or opening up when the weather has been a bit iffy. Even then, compared to a friend who has the colonies from hell (stripey little beggars) that are all over you as soon as you take the lid off, mine don't even feature on the Richter scale of agressiveness.

It must really put people off when someone continually bleats that small black bees are not good - I love mine, they are well behaved, productive, survivors - yes they swarm occasionally - and they overwinter very well.

I think the lesson here is that ANY open mated Queens can end up producing bees with aggressive tendencies and if you find this is how they are then you have two options - live with them and put up with it, or change the queen for one from a known strain that is calmer to handle.

Don't be put off black bees - it's a gross generality being put foward here by our Finished member.

 

[Jthebeek]

Location is key! any bee is gentle when it's happy. Give it good forage and little competition and your on to a winner. That's why commercial beeks have to buy in Queens. If you only have one or two use whatever as long as local environment is good. I've kept 30 mungrels hives for 15 years and NEVER GET STUNG!