agro chemicals wanted

[hedgerow pete]

right ho , yes its true i love agro chemicals well some of them any way, well herbicides anyway

i use two weed killers at the allotments and the out apiaries, one is gallop and the other is garlon 2.

now we all know gallop is a the standard Glyphosate but i dont know is there a better or improved version,

and garlon 2 is for my docks , nettles and most importantly the dreaded horse tail, so its based on Triclopyr (3,5,6-Trichloro-2-pyridinyloxyacetic acid)

and again is there better , newer or cheaper, i am talking one litre bottle here not 20 litres

and yes i have a knapsac and pesticide tickets

 

[psafloyd]

What's wrong with nettles, Pete? Great for composting.

 

[tonybloke]

pm sent, with link

 

[hedgerow pete]

tony the quote i was given from my old source was £288 inc vat for round up pro active and they dont stock garlon 4 any more

 

[drstitson]

nettles - think compost, beer, spinach substitute.

 

[Frisbee]

I use Grazon 90 for broad leaved weeds, docks, nettles and buttercups, not sure about horsetail as I don't have any. The last time I bought some it was a 1 litre bottle......30ml to 5 litres I think the cost was about £33. It doesn't touch grass and I avoid the dandelions.

Frisbee

 

[hedgerow pete]

thanks i am studying an online suppliers catalogue at the moment trying to work out the best herbicides to use, i had forgoten how many there are and how detailed there targets are, i love it, great stuff, i had also forgot about base carriers aswell, horse tail has a wax coating so i was suggested to use a oil base or to crush the steams before spraying

 

[Frisbee]

Would a drop of washing up liquid help in the mix in that case then, it would help soak the leaves.......I'll re-phrase that as with the modern stuff soaking doesn't help at all, but washing up liquid would help penetrate the surface protection.

Frisbee

 

[Frisbee]

nettles - think compost, beer, spinach substitute.

It's not the leaves that are the problem, but the roots, which smother everything else. The young leaves are nice boiled like spinach.

When I first got my field I couldn't see the river for the nettles growing on the side, now it's a delight to sit on the bank in the evening........getting bitten by mozzies

Frisbee

 

[tonybloke]

thanks i am studying an online suppliers catalogue at the moment trying to work out the best herbicides to use, i had forgoten how many there are and how detailed there targets are, i love it, great stuff, i had also forgot about base carriers aswell, horse tail has a wax coating so i was suggested to use a oil base or to crush the steams before spraying

use diesel as a surfactant

 

[hedgerow pete]

i always use washing up liquid as a wetter, i git taught that many years ago by a friendly farmer when i first did my knapsac ticket.

diesel, now that sound like a good idea, a couple of gallon would do my area, i was thinking white spirit or parafin, so diesle works just as well

does the mix ratio alter with diesel instead of water or does it not mater

 

[Little John]

I get through a litre of Roundup about every 2 years - mainly to keep a long driveway (railway ballast) clear, and around the edges of polytunnels and sheds. Paddocks stay untouched - hence the moles !
I'm finding that Roundup won't touch Mares-Tail, and only has a marginal effect on Brambles.

I'm told that Ammonium Sulphamate is the stuff to defeat Mares-Tail (which is beginning to seriously take-over the whole place) - it's not cheap though.

 

[hedgerow pete]

ammonium sulphate is a total kill residual weed killer if you did not realise, good for up to a round three to six months, sodiun chlorate will also do the same, the suggested weed killer i want to use is not round up as it is only glyspaste but to use garlon 4 which is acid based , i cant rember which one with out looking for it,

to treat mares tail is a nitemare mainly because it have a natural wax coating, the best times to hit it with round up and water mix is in a dry spell when it will take the mix in, the other way which i do is to roller it, this causes damage to the outer skin which allows the chemicals inside

some thing i have yet to research is the use of diesel as a base rather than water, aparently it gets past the wax coat

 

[PBee]

Scythe? Runs on renewable energy and lowers cholesterol

 

[hedgerow pete]

and a complete waste of time with mares tail, the ryzone roots will spread like wild fire under the ground taking over every part for the uncut allotment,

scythes are a great piece of kit for keeping weeds cut down to a lawn sort of hieght but in no way kills it

 

[Little John]

Mares-tail really is a nightmare - I have one small paddock (about 1/4 acre) which is infested. That could be rollered, sprayed, and the land taken out of commission totally, until I was sure of success (forever the optimist ...).

But the real problem I have with it, is where it has crept in and around glasshouses and polytunnels. That is presenting more of a challenge. When the next batch of a.s. arrives (it's only for the compost heap, honest guv'), I'm thinking of strimming over the mares-tail, just to take the tops off, then spraying immediately, in the hope that some spray will find it's way down the hollow stems.

I've only ever used washing-up liquid as a wetting agent - I can't see how an oily product could possibly work - a wetting agent needs to have polar groups on it's molecule (to make contact with water molecules), whereas diesel/paraffin etc are not exactly renowned for their readiness to do this !

Penetrating the wax is a separate issue - there's a chance it might do that. I'd be interested to hear of any successful experiments ...

 

[Snail368]

I presume that whoever suggested using diesel as a tank mix was joking. Seriously it has been done in the past, but is not only counter productive, it is illegal, dangerous and not environmentally friendly.

You also don't need to use washing up liquid - again it's not a recommended practice and adds nothing to the efficacy. Modern herbicides have plenty of surfactants (not like the old days when a bit of extra surfactant was needed).

Read and follow the label.

I use Green-tech for my product purchasing, they seem to be reasonable on price.

Marestail is a problem weed, but my advice is to use a suitable herbicide - Progreen offer Kurtail. I've not used it, but it is available. Other products exist.

(Sorry for the rant, but I recently saw a site where the client had sprayed petrol on his Japanese knotweed, the resulting fire took out his eyebrows, his fence, 3 trees and damn nearly his house - and the knotweed was scorched but otherwise quite happy, so my tolerance level for 'diesel/petrol' being sprayed on stuff is fairly low).

 

[Snail368]

"Diesel use comes and goes. Originated with oil based formulations where the active may have been helped. However, almost all products are now water based so the active is not helped in the leaf cuticle penetration [or retention] process. Indeed, it is often antagonistic. It is not to my knowledge an approved additive and I cannot see it ever becoming one!! Imagine its use close to water? Imagine the impact on dermal penetration? Imagine the effect on sprayer components and seals?"

The above quote is from my father, a man with more than 50 years experience in the agrochemical industry. It perhaps explains to people where the idea of using diesel has come from.

 

[hedgerow pete]

i was told it helped to get pasted the plants waxcoating,

any fool that sprays petrol other than inside a cars cylinder wants burning anyway

the two i was told to use was parafin or red diesel.

 

[Snail368]

Then you were told to do something stupid and illegal...

It doesn't work like that, all you will do is to wreck your sprayer, burn off the weed foliage (which will re-grow from the roots), waste chemical and pollute the environment. You may even get dermatitis from this operation.

There was some truth in it about 40-50 years ago, things have changed since then. Chemicals are mainly water based not oil based. By mixing diesel or paraffin into a spray mix, you will probably deactivate the chemical anyway!!!

Once and for all, mixing diesel or paraffin in a spray mix is illegal (you could be prosecuted, even jailed), dangerous, doesn't work, and is bad for the environment.