AFB and saving a queen.

[mazzamazda]

Finman, I'm looking for some advice please.

I have a commercial outfit in Portugal with around 600 hives. Last year I burned around 20-30 hives with AFB, I have to say I'm terrified of it. I check my bees every 7 days and check in winter too so I usually find AFB quickly in 1 or 2 cells.

Up to now I have just burned the complete hive with bees as soon as I've seen it and I've managed to limit any spread, Its also a disease I should register but don't due to the hassle and paperwork. I get no help from any authorities like in the UK. I'd prefer not to lose my bees but don't want to risk apiaries.

What would you do in my position please.

 

[Finman]

Finman, I'm looking for some advice please.

I have a commercial outfit in Portugal with around 600 hives. Last year I burned around 20-30 hives with AFB, I have to say I'm terrified of it. I check my bees every 7 days and check in winter too so I usually find AFB quickly in 1 or 2 cells.

Up to now I have just burned the complete hive with bees as soon as I've seen it and I've managed to limit any spread, Its also a disease I should register but don't due to the hassle and paperwork. I get no help from any authorities like in the UK. I'd prefer not to lose my bees but don't want to risk apiaries.

What would you do in my position please.

I have had ABF 50 years, and it is expencive to burn any hives.

I know the Scandinavian recipe how to cure the disease. First important thing is that each hive
must have own marked frames. But i have been too lazy to do that .I can give my best advices to minimize the losses, but lets make it in private letters. This forum is not a place to that discussion.

I have noticed too, that I have had hive places, where it seems, that there are wild contaminated hive cavities, from where healthy hives get disease. Only way is to stay off from those places.

When you have so many hives, it is impossible to avoid contamination from other apiaries or from wild hives..

We had 2 years ago country size a research, which told that there are few places, where sick hives are exceptionally much. Those places have quite high hive density. Where are much hives, there is bigger opportunity to get diseases.

.

 

[mazzamazda]

Many thanks for your quick reply, any help hugely appreciated.

 

[BeeJayBee]

Frankly Finman, It's YOU that are not helping things. Last year, in the UK, we saw only a few outbreaks of AFB (American Foul Brood) because we are so insistent that both bees and hives are destroyed. We are not talking about EFB (European Foul Brood) that can be treated with a shook swarm and new frames ...

You are offering advice to, potentially, inexperienced beekeepers on a forum that draws its members, in the main, from Great Britain, that is contrary to our UK Beekeeping regulations

" Both foulbroods are statutory notifiable diseases and therefore, beekeepers are legally obligated to report any suspected diseased colonies under the Bee Diseases and Pests Control Order 2006 (as amended)."

The Bee Inspector will, certainly, destroy any hives that are infected with AFB and has the ability to enforce this action. He also has the opportunity to recommend destruction of hives infected with EFB if he sees fit although I've not heard of any EFB colonies being destroyed**. It is not legal in the UK to conceal either of these foulbroods and any action taken has to be with the agreement of the Bee Inspector.

Please stop ... it's irresponsible.

It is irresponsible and potentially disastrous for new UK beekeepers to read what is acceptable in other countries, and think they can do the same here in Britain. Both European and American Foulbrood are notifiable bee diseases, and MUST be reported to the inspectorate.

** Last year's list is here http://www.nationalbeeunit.com/public/BeeDiseases/colonyReport.cfm I presume this list will go as soon as they start to inspect in 2016)

284 English, 21 Scottish and 42 Welsh colonies were destroyed because of EFB.

8 EFB colonies in England were treated with antibiotics, 0 in both Wales and Scotland. I believe that honey from these treated colonies is not allowed to go into the food chain.

146 in England, 33 in Scotland, 36 in Wales were treated for EFB with shook swarm.

19 (England), 6 (Scotland) and 5 (Wales) were destroyed due to AFB.

I know where some of the destroyed EFB-infected colonies were and asked why they hadn't been shook swarmed or treated with antibiotics. The inspector said the infection was too advanced for the colonies to recover.

Moral there, surely, is to call for help as soon as something suspicious is seen rather than to hope it will go away on its own.

Polyhives are easy to sterilize. You dip the walls into hot lye water

In Britain beekeepers with poly hives are advised to use a bleach (hypochlorite) solution to sterilise their hives.

 

[mazzamazda]

I personally think the problem with AFB in the UK is or was with me was complacency. With only a few cases, tiny percentage, I wasn't too bothered about it, if you do get AFB you get 100% help AND compensation!

As soon as I came to Portugal, had an infection within a month, it spread, I got no help,in fact other beekeepers treated me as if I had the plague. I had to deal with it myself. Horrible.

I've dealt with it, I hate it, I'm still scared of it after all this time, burning hives. Anyone will say who has had AFB, you never get over it, I get dressed up latex gloves on antibacterial gel, hive tool religiously heated and disinfected at the end of every day. Its horrific.

I can appreciate what Finman says, I think he is annoyed about the prehistoric methods we use, Its the same for everything in the UK, burn or kill it/them (Badgers F&M TB etc)

For me I'm not bothered about regulations, its already too tough in Portugal, registration paperwork, fines for mistakes in records, hive locations etc. I do think its very different in the UK with assistance as apposed to hassle.

Now I'm looking at other options for AFB treatment.

 

[alldigging]

For me I'm not bothered about regulations, its already too tough in Portugal, registration paperwork, fines for mistakes in records, hive locations etc. I do think its very different in the UK with assistance as apposed to hassle.

Now I'm looking at other options for AFB treatment.

If you think paperwork is hard then imagine what it'd be like for using this method
http://www.montcobeekeepers.org/Pages/Irradiation.aspx

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I personally think the problem with AFB in the UK is , if you do get AFB you get 100% help AND compensation!

Dream on! where on earth did you hear that - there is no compensation whatsoever - as a hobbyist you have to pay for BDI cover which only compensates you a small amount for frames, QX's and a few other things - nothing for the lost colonies and as a commercial you have to arrange your own insurance. The only 'help' you get is to burn the bees and kit - you even have to dig the hole yourself!! to say that British beekeepers are complacent because they get compensation is venturing into the realms of fantasy.

For me I'm not bothered about regulations,

Maybe that's the core issue out there

I personally think the problem with AFB in the UK is or was with me was complacency.

So the problem isn't the uk as a whole but with you then? seems to be a trend developing here

 

[Cussword]

You even have to dig the hole yourself!!

They'd have to have a lot of patience waiting for me to dig a hole, it'd take all day.

 

[mbc]

Now I'm looking at other options for AFB treatment.

http://www.apiservices.com/new/books/afb_nz.htm

The kiwis have got a good handle on it on a commercial scale, you'd do well to research how they have minimised the problem.

 

[B+.]

seems to be a trend developing here

The trend is in people in one part of the world thinking they know enough to comment about another part of the worlds "problems"....and, we're all guilty of it

 

[Finman]

As soon as I came to Portugal, had an infection within a month, it spread, I got no help,in fact other beekeepers treated me as if I had the plague. I had to deal with it myself. Horrible.

I've dealt with it, I hate it, I'm still scared of it after all this time, burning hives. Anyone will say who has had AFB, you never get over it, I get dressed up latex gloves on antibacterial gel, hive tool religiously heated and disinfected at the end of every day. Its horrific.

I can appreciate what Finman says, I think he is annoyed about the prehistoric methods we use, Its the same for everything in the UK, burn or kill it/them (Badgers F&M TB etc)
.

We have strict regulations too. IT would be easy to catch beekeepers during running.

You take a jar from supermarket, measure spores. Then positive results, and 500 hives into fire! In couple of years police could burn most of ptofessional beekeepers property. Surely you find so much spores that all into fire.

But Finland is not such society and AFB is not do bad thing, that we must destroy someones' profession.

But if a beekeeper speak openly about his problem, others are poking at once. Even if you loose swarm, reaction is hah hah ha. Just like a Welsh village dog. Beekeepers are really a jealous gang.

If you tell to authority, you cannot move any more hives to other pastures, and your best yield will be disappeared.

What you can do in such situation: Go undergroud. Keep mouth shut.
We have so much empty landscapes that no one know, how much you have hives.

So. We have a practice that, that cases are handled with confidence. No one is hurted. No one loose his profession. No one's property is burning. The owner consider,does he spread the dusease, or does he burn his dirty furnitures, if something should be burned.

We have lived under control of Russians and under Swedish and we have our ways to avoid outhorities if they try to be smarter than citizens.
But we have not in every village 10 persons police stations like in British movies.

We have different human climate, you know.
.

 

[Hivemaker.]

We have much the same here, Finman, thousands of people breaking the law every day, they don't give a hoot.

 

[Finman]

The trend is in people in one part of the world thinking they know enough to comment about another part of the worlds "problems"....and, we're all guilty of it

We are all adult people and we ar all able to decide what we do. We are not needed to inform, what weather is outside of my window.

Quilty ... Good heavens...to what.

Nothing is so important than beekeeping and even it is not very important..

In one part of the world... Where?
.

 

[Finman]

We have much the same here, Finman, thousands of people breaking the law every day, they don't give a hoot.

Now we have a hobby here. Adult persons go into houses where lives helpless 80 year old people. They just take money in the middle of th bright day and vanish. No one go after.

Thousands of people have been robbed in the city centre of Helsinki annually. And the Police must be quiet. Robbers are under 18 yeard old and not under crime law. Bigger shildren rob smaller shildren.

We really have much more bigger proplems than some lowsy abf hive in the shadows of woods.

Then, guys rob some copper from railways and trains stops going. I know, same in UK.
Ha ha ha thing (sigh) We need copper inspectors an army.

 

[mazzamazda]

I was only pointing out what are mainly my downfalls!

Compensation.....Compared to calling the authorities and getting them to come costs per person, then testing for AFB is 1800e for up to 30 hives, then you have to disclose your sites to have a strict no movement for 90 days. In comparison getting something back and having someone there to test for free and knows his/her stuff is so valuable. Its where my comment on not being bothered about regulations came from.

Thank you for the links and information I'll certainly look it up.

 

[Hivemaker.]

In comparison getting something back and having someone there to test for free and knows his/her stuff is so valuable.

Test them yourself, use either a microscope or lateral flow device, either is very easy to use.

 

[Finman]

=mazzamazda;517064
, then testing for AFB is 1800e for up to 30 hives, then you have to disclose your sites to have a strict no movement for 90 days. .

IT is possible too to make own lab tests and incubate at home those bacterium cultivations.

Secret is the temp. The afb bacterium stands 130C heat. It selects the disease from other bacteria.

I saw in internet the procedure how it is done. It is cultivated in usual protein substrate.
.

 

[mbc]

Test them yourself, use either a microscope or lateral flow device, either is very easy to use.

Match stick is easier and just as good as an lfd

 

[Finman]

.
Hands up, who has seen AFB
Hands up who has treated AFB problem

All have written here about rules, which every one already knows. Very informative.

We use to say " pike is a fish, pike is a fish, pike us a fish", if you do not know that pike is a fish.

 

[madasafish]

.
Hands up, who has seen AFB
Hands up who has treated AFB problem

All have written here about rules, which every one already knows. Very informative.

We use to say " pike is a fish, pike is a fish, pike us a fish", if you do not know that pike is a fish.

Seen AFB
Treated AFB
Killed bees.


Does not make me an expert.