Advice please

[Olivia9801]

I opened up both of my hives today and they were both packed with bees. Initially it made me feel there was a clear shortage of space.

It was also apparent there was plenty of food with lots of both sealed and open brood. I felt it was nigh on impossible to spot the queens in the hives as the were so packed with bees. I felt this colony was very likely to be on the verge of swarming. The bees temperament in both hives was very calm.

I found in the large hive 3 capped supersedure cells and as I got a number of spare nationals,I would like to divide the colony. However with it being almost impossible to locate the queen, I feel it's to risky to transfer frames to the new hive only assuming and hoping the queen is on one of them.

I have to act as quickly as possible as with there being capped queen cells in there, they are on the verge of swarming.

What's best?

Your advice would be appreciated.

Regards

 

[mbc]

Erm....find the queen?!
It's an elemental skill for beekeeping and with patience and concentration most queens can be found and as you practice you'll get better at it.

 

[pargyle]

There are lots of tricks to finding the queen .. but if you are sure you have queen cells and they are capped you are going to have to act now ... like NOW because otherwise she will be gone - indeed they might already have swarmed !

Easiest thing to do is move the hive about 4 or 5 feet away from it's present position, then put an empty box with a couple of frames in it on the spot where the hive was. If the bees are flying this will bleed off the foragers and there will be a lot less bees in the hive. The odds are that the queen will be on one of the frames with eggs in it and open cleaned cells ... so, take a couple of frames of stores out of the hive to make some space, make sure the queen is not on them and then put the frames with eggs and larvae on them in pairs with space betwen the pairs. The queen will almost certainly be on the inside of one of these pairs of frames. You have to get used to just scanning the frames - don't look too closely, let your eyes wander across the face of the frame looking for unusual movement in the pattern of the bees - that's where the queen will be.

Once you have found her - catch her in either a crown of thorns or a queen catcher and then you can do your Artificial swarm manipulations without worrying about where the queen is. Just don't forget to put her back in the right box !

You also should read Wally Shaw's excellent pamphlet ... as you may be in to damage limitation if they have already swarmed ..

https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=ssl#q=i+have+queen+cells+in+my+hive&*

There are lots of other tips for finding the queen on here - use the search function and 'Finding the queen' ...

Try here :

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=39162&highlight=finding+queen

and here:

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=36329&highlight=Finding+queen

 

[Nige.Coll]

Lol split them, only the split with the queen will swarm. Unless you drop the ball and don't manage the cells. Damage limitation.
Make sure all parts have what they need,

3 Queen cells means good bees in some circles.
Supersedure cells amongst the best.
Drones could be an issue but maybe not, no idea where you are.

There are loads of videos etc on finding queens.
It took me 30 mins and having to pair the frames to find her.

Above all don't panic.

 

[user 6228]

3 q cells doesn't not necessarily imply swarming at all. It may result in just supercedure

 

[enrico]

The first thing that you need to give them is more room, have you been feeding them? is there room for the queen to lay?

 

[Olivia9801]

Thanks for your replies.

I did give them a new brood box during my time in opening them up yesterday and had a quick peep last night which revealed loads in there so it seems they are quick in discovering the new space.

I realise I will have to move quickly with the split and hope I'm in time. I don't think the Queen has gone/ they have already swarmed as there was hardly any visible brood/foundation as the hive was that dense with Bees. If she had swarmed with the clan or part of them there would have been an indication somewhere on some frame space left but there wasn't.

I will try again to find her but will have to take a careful guess which frames she could be on and move them to the new hives.

At present it's still quite cold, windy and raining which may buy me some time?

Regards

 

[Fatbee]

Queen is usually on frames with eggs so start with checking those frames with eggs on.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I found in the large hive 3 capped supersedure cells

How do you figure that one out - could be swarm cells, you did say you couldn't find the queen.

 

[psafloyd]

Are you sure they are supercedure cells? If so, why would they be swarming?

I opened up both of my hives today and they were both packed with bees. Initially it made me feel there was a clear shortage of space.

It was also apparent there was plenty of food with lots of both sealed and open brood. I felt it was nigh on impossible to spot the queens in the hives as the were so packed with bees. I felt this colony was very likely to be on the verge of swarming. The bees temperament in both hives was very calm.

I found in the large hive 3 capped supersedure cells and as I got a number of spare nationals,I would like to divide the colony. However with it being almost impossible to locate the queen, I feel it's to risky to transfer frames to the new hive only assuming and hoping the queen is on one of them.

I have to act as quickly as possible as with there being capped queen cells in there, they are on the verge of swarming.

What's best?

Your advice would be appreciated.

Regards

 

[psafloyd]

There are lots of tricks to finding the queen .. but if you are sure you have queen cells and they are capped you are going to have to act now ... like NOW because otherwise she will be gone - indeed they might already have swarmed !

 

[Beanwood]

I have to act as quickly as possible as with there being capped queen cells in there, they are on the verge of swarming.

If they're genuine supersedure cells, (On the face of the comb, not at the bottom - only three sounds reasonable, not MANY for swarming) they're unlikely to swarm - although if you still have eggs in cells, i.e. HM still present - I'd be looking at some form of AS;

One that I vaguely recall involves ALL the bees in the bottom brood box, A super on top, with another brood box (With a single queen cell, and some frames of brood and food) atop the rest.
Queen excluders to separate each box, so the nurse bees can move up, but with the super in-between, so queen substance doesn't travel the distance, and bees in the bottom box think they have swarmed?
This really wants a second entrance to the top brood box to be most effective.

So it looks a bit like:

BBBBBB
xxxxxxx
SSSSSS
xxxxxxx
BBBBBB

It also means you don't have to do multiple manipulations in less than ideal conditions, keeps your existing queen in place, allows a QC to hatch as a back up....

 

[Olivia9801]

Thank you for your replies and advice. Perhaps I should have been a bit more explanatory. The 3 of them are on the face/middle of the comb and project out from the frame. like a peanut shell.

There were no swarm cells on the bottoms of any of the frames.


Thanks again.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Thank you for your replies and advice. Perhaps I should have been a bit more explanatory. The 3 of them are on the face/middle of the comb and project out from the frame. like a peanut shell.

There were no swarm cells on the bottoms of any of the frames.


Thanks again.

Let's dispel one myth - swarm cells can appear anywhere. It is naive to assume just because they're in the middle of the frame that they are supersedure cells.
They don't always get put on the bottom of the comb.
Rule of thumb is, if there are more than one - assume swarming.
Check for eggs soonest and also if they have built any morre cells since the last time.
When you say the project out of the frame - do they grow staright out then bend down or have the bees cleared the comb a bit so they are virtually straight and nearly vertical?

 

[Beanwood]

Let's dispel one myth - swarm cells can appear anywhere. It is naive to assume just because they're in the middle of the frame that they are supersedure cells.

Agreed, and it's difficult to assess from a distance, without the history, but three does seem rather a low number for swarming?

Regardless, the OP needs to take SOME action assuming it isn't supersedure - or maybe do nothing if it is ?

What would you recommend?