Advice on recombining.

[pbh4]

About 20 days ago I did an artificial swarm which did not go quite like the text books say in that most of the bees ended up in the split with the queen cell - they did not fly home. The AS with the queen on the original site continued to make QCs.

12 days ago the bee inspector visited. He confirmed that all was well but commented that the AS colony looked weak (4 frames of bees). We destroyed the QCs. We saw the queen and brood including eggs. (left 1 QC in split)

6 days ago the AS colony had only 2 frames of bees. queen not seen. brood in all stages including a whole side of a frame with eggs, many standing on their ends. (Still a sealed QC in split)

Yesterday the AS colony has only 2 frames of bees. Quite agitated. Different sound from usual - a quite roar if that makes sense. No young brood. A few big grubs and a frame of sealed brood. Queen not seen. Nothing but empty cells where the eggs had been last week. (QC now uncapped in split)


So ... It looks to me like the old queen has left with a small swarm leaving behind a queenless colony with no hope of raising a new queen. I suspect the eggs/young grubs died because we had some cold nights and very few bees to keep them warm. Fortunately the split is teeming with bees over 11 frames and has a virgin queen so I think we can recover.


The question is what to do. I am inclined to put the queenless colony on top of the split using newspaper and let them raise the brood above the QE and supers. I can't use a test frame to confirm they are queenless because I have no laying queen! But is it safe if it is above the QE?

Wise advice welcome

Paul

 

[Bryanthebee]

put together.
last year i waited to long and ended up with laying workers, place the queen right at bottom queen less on top and some pin holes in the news paper it will be fine.

but be sure you have no laying workers if so shake out and carry on with the above, seems a bit harsh if need to shake out but it is for the best.

 

[MuswellMetro]

About 20 days ago I did an artificial swarm which did not go quite like the text books say in that most of the bees ended up in the split with the queen cell - they did not fly home. The AS with the queen on the original site continued to make QCs.

12 days ago the bee inspector visited. He confirmed that all was well but commented that the AS colony looked weak (4 frames of bees). We destroyed the QCs. We saw the queen and brood including eggs. (left 1 QC in split)

6 days ago the AS colony had only 2 frames of bees. queen not seen. brood in all stages including a whole side of a frame with eggs, many standing on their ends. (Still a sealed QC in split)

Yesterday the AS colony has only 2 frames of bees. Quite agitated. Different sound from usual - a quite roar if that makes sense. No young brood. A few big grubs and a frame of sealed brood. Queen not seen. Nothing but empty cells where the eggs had been last week. (QC now uncapped in split)


So ... It looks to me like the old queen has left with a small swarm leaving behind a queenless colony with no hope of raising a new queen. I suspect the eggs/young grubs died because we had some cold nights and very few bees to keep them warm. Fortunately the split is teeming with bees over 11 frames and has a virgin queen so I think we can recover.


The question is what to do. I am inclined to put the queenless colony on top of the split using newspaper and let them raise the brood above the QE and supers. I can't use a test frame to confirm they are queenless because I have no laying queen! But is it safe if it is above the QE?

Wise advice welcome



Paul

i veiw it quite differently, i think your AS could have either a 6 day old virgin due to a hidden emerged scrub queen cell or again a hidden scrub QC you missed, the old queen having left with half the bees

they hide QC if you keep knocking them down

 

[oliver90owner]

Apart from the recombining: No supers involved in this lot?

I would recommend requeening from a decent stock ASAP.

RAB

 

[pbh4]

Apart from the recombining: No supers involved in this lot?

I would recommend requeening from a decent stock ASAP.

RAB

Yes, 2 supers. Originally both were on the AS with the old queen on the original site. When it became clear that there were too many bees in the split and few in the AS I moved one onto the split. Both supers contain alternating frames of full uncapped nectar and foundation.

 

[must_dash]

I'm in a similar situation after an AS they built, I removed several leaving 2. These QCs have both failed and I now have a queenless colony?
Can I put the original queen back into that hive and let the nuc draw new QCs? Would I need a cage to reintroduce her to her offspring?
Thanks

 

[Poly Hive]

Please use a test frame first.

PH