Advice on making splits later this year

[Codford]

I am looking to increase my hives from 2 to 4 this year and, at the same time, keep my honey production to a maximum (this will be the first year I will be taking any honey off them).

Current set up is two 14x12 poly, 2017 F1 "Buckfast" - currently overwintering nicely.

Spare kit is an additional two 14x12's polys and two six frame 14x12 nucs; all complete with frames, supers, feeders etc.

Any advice as to: timing/time of year, best method(s) and general pointers/tips gratefully received. Over to the collective wisdom of the forum.... Thank you.

 

[Millet]

There is loads of threads on here about different artificial swarm methods that can still keep your work force strong and also raise new Queens in the process, try searching Pagden/Demaree and the snelgrove board methods.

 

[Codford]

There is loads of threads on here about different artificial swarm methods that can still keep your work force strong and also raise new Queens in the process, try searching Pagden/Demaree and the snelgrove board methods.

Thanks for that Millet. I am looking, in particular, to keep overall season honey yield high. A couple of factors/considerations I have identified are:

- run the 2 existing colonies as honey production, then split later in the season (150 acres of OSR on the doorstep), possibility of overwintering nucs?
- buy 2 new queens or raise own (speed of build up/productivity)?

I have no doubt there will be others.

 

[enrico]

To be honest with you you will probably find the bees make up your mind for you. They will want to swarm and that is the best time to split as it not only splits the colony but minimises the swarming instinct. If you need to keep the bees strong for a flow then consider the snelgrove\demaree methods but I would be led by your bees.
E

 

[Erichalfbee]

As above and put bait hives out. You can always requeen caught swarms or just use the bees. I don’t know about Demarree with 14x12. You’d have to a bloomin weight lifter.

 

[Poly Hive]

You have to accept what you are intending is not possible.

You have two choices.

1. Run for honey.

2. Run for increase.

Both cannot be achieved in the same season.

PH

 

[Ely]

You can take a little honey but certainly not maximum production.

 

[Wingy]

When you make your split(s) however you decide to go will you have frames already drawn or will they be starting with fresh foundation? If the latter much work will go into wax production which will result in less honey.

 

[drex]

Totally agree with the above, especially poly hive. Splitting colonies will limit your honey production. I am in a similar situation with lots of OSR. Get the as strong as possible ready for the rape. That might mean pollen supplements if there is not much in the hives. Once my bees have started on the rape, they will invariably show signs of swarming. It is the up to you. Do you keep a strong workforce as in a Demaree, and let them raise a new queen, or none, in the top box, or do you split completely? Your plans are one thing, the bees plans another.
Two colonies each of say, 20,000 bees will not produce as much honey as one colony of 40,000

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Demarree gives you the best of both worlds - discourages swarming but still gives you a strong colony running on twice as many brood frames, you can also take one nuc out of the top box so you double your colonies without overly weakening the original colony Or you can let them raise a new queen in the top box and run a two queen system and split at the end of the year as long as you make up a Demarree board to keep the two queens apart and have an upper entrance.

 

[Swarm]

Saves on space too.

 

[mbc]

You have to accept what you are intending is not possible.

You have two choices.

1. Run for honey.

2. Run for increase.

Both cannot be achieved in the same season.

PH

I dont believe this is necessarily true, in the op's situation it would be entirely reasonable to double numbers without any appreciable loss of crop by requeening the existing colonies with bought in mated queens sometime in may/june and taking one frame of bees and brood with the old queens in a poly nuc to build up for the winter. Poly nucs have been a game changer in this respect, nucs can be taken with minimal investment of bees and brood, especially when the evenings are warm, with a reasonable chance of success.

 

[Poly Hive]

A ONE frame nuc?

Not a chance up here and not a way of making up a nuc many would promote?

PH

 

[Walrus]

Assuming that both of your colonies come through winter and build up well in the Spring, you are still in quite a precarious position with 2 hives. I would be prioritising increase over honey at this stage but I understand that you need some honey to justify the effort and costs so far.

I think I'd get them ready for the OSR then go for increase after that. My experience of making up nucs later on in the year has not been great (wasps etc) but I think I have been too greedy and left them too weak.

Another option, as per that old German video, is to take a shook swarm after the OSR. This could then go onto foundation frames in a nuc and get them drawn out.

 

[Uncle Betty]

What do experienced heads here think of Wally Shaw's booklet 'Simple Methods of Making Increase' ?


A few quotes -

Timing in relation to nectar flows – at the end of the spring flow (or
after oil-seed rape) minimises the impact (if any!) on honey production.

It is often said that splitting a colony will cost you a super of honey and this is a disincentive for many beekeepers. However, experience of splitting hives shows that it has less effect on honey production than you might think.

In the case of a 1 to 2 split, if it is made at the right time (after the spring flow), the parent colony (with the old queen) and the new colony (with a new queen) will both have a sufficient number of bees to make a substantial honey crop from the main flow. The combined yield may be greater than if the original colony had remained intact...

Link for the OP, if interested...

http://www.wbka.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Simple-methods-of-making-Increase-Final-reduced1.pdf

 

[Swarm]

As usual it depends on the seasons weather and flows, making up small nucs as per mbc gives them plenty of time to build ready to over Winter. Next thing is to create nucleus brood factories like Michael Palmer promotes.

 

[mbc]

He's right about the timing but for minimum impact on honey crop and ease of management for the rest of the season I much prefer requeening the parent hive and taking a small nuc with the old queen. The parent hive will have minimal risk of swarming with a new queen and can safely be left to pack out many supers without congestion being an issue while the old queen can be utilised to build up a new nest and if desired requeened later to make a colony as good as any other for overwintering.
With Wally's scheme the part of the split with the old queen will likely try to swarm if the flow gets going and neither part is likely to produce a decent crop in most seasons.

 

[Hivemaker.]

I am looking to increase my hives from 2 to 4 this year and, at the same time, keep my honey production to a maximum (this will be the first year I will be taking any honey off them).

Current set up is two 14x12 poly, 2017 F1 "Buckfast" - currently overwintering nicely.

Spare kit is an additional two 14x12's polys and two six frame 14x12 nucs; all complete with frames, supers, feeders etc.

Any advice as to: timing/time of year, best method(s) and general pointers/tips gratefully received. Over to the collective wisdom of the forum.... Thank you.

Keep your colonies strong for the main honey flows, after they have collected the honey split/make up nucs and introduce mated queens.

 

[Eyeman]

With good weather and heathy bees both expansion and honey are possible.
I set up a new roof top apiary in April 2017, this is how it went:
Started with 4 colonies:
x 2 single nationals with one super on each
x2 5x5 double national nucs.


I had sufficient locally mated queens this year to re-queen rather than allow splits to build up with queen cells.

Ended the season going into winter with 10 colonies:
x2 double nationals with one super on each
x1 single national with one super
x1 5x5 double national nucs
x1 3x3 double national nucs
x2 6 frame national nucs (moved to a new apiary)

and 300 lbs of honey.

 

[olriley]

Ended the season going into winter with 10 colonies:

Very impressive and interesting to a relative beginner.

So your new colonies were typically made by splitting from a hive with no swarm cells, and introducing a new mated queen to the new split? What time of year did you do this?

Did you split all your initial colonies, or reserve some for production?

Also would you mind explaining your nuc terminology e.g. '5x5' and 'double'

Thanks!