Abelo varroa floor with wire screen

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local_beekeeper

House Bee
Joined
Nov 27, 2011
Messages
135
Reaction score
7
Location
Devon
Hive Type
National
Number of Hives
National 50, Langstroth 10
Just seen this on abelo website, wire screen.... not mesh? Any ideas? Looks very smooth surface compere to mesh screen.
 
Any ideas?
The Abelo floor is another unresolved element of that goodish hive, and my guess is that as the mesh screen was floppy in a saggy way they decided to remedy it. Would have been better if their R&D had resolved the issue before selling several thousand, of course, but then R&D appears to be pretty rare in the UK poly business.

Read Prof. David Evans' thoughts on the Abelo floor here. It's called Flawed Floors with good reason, and I could add a few to the list. After that, ring Abelo and ask them why they changed the mesh. The number is 01904 849331 and you'll find Mark and Damian are good to chat to.
 
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Read Prof. David Evans' thoughts on the Abelo floor .

Whilst I usually agree with much of what Apiarist says on his blog I thought this one was out of order. He essentially was moaning that the floor wasn't designed to be sealed when vaping.
I can't think of a single floor Poly or otherwise) that was designed with vaping in mind. Kind accident in the Paynes floors.
I also wasn't sure what points he was really making as I also use a sublimox for vaping and using Abelo standard floors with tray inserts an d encounter no problems when sublimation. So I thought the factual,content was incorrect and was simply written by someone who didn't like their floors and was prepared to write a whole article about them.
Now if he'd compared several varieties it would have been a fairer appraisal.
 
...my guess is that as the mesh screen was floppy in a saggy way they decided to remedy it. ...


I’ve not found the mesh to be saggy - but what bothered me was the strips of metal holding the mesh in place. Once removed for cleaning, it’s difficult to get them back in place. I prefer a mesh floor with no metal strips and not having to use the same hole again to screw the floor in place. I think the new floor might be better in that respect.
 
He essentially was moaning that the floor wasn't designed to be sealed when vaping.
I can't think of a single floor Poly or otherwise) that was designed with vaping in mind. Kind accident in the Paynes floors.
There lies the problem with National poly design: limited R&D that didn't investigate all angles and come up with solutions.

How long have they been gassing in Europe? Long enough to know that it's effective and efficient, and long enough for hive designers to take it on board. Where was the Abelo designed? In Europe.

MC: mesh on the Abelo floors I've worked with have all sagged, so maybe you've been lucky; I agree that replacing a screw into poly is bound to widen the hole and lead to loss of grip. Still, a scrap of wood in there should restore it (another workaround to add to the list).

The (otherwise excellent) feeder may eventually have the same problem, because the gridded internal lid unscrews for cleaning, but at least it screws into plastic before it enters poly. Feeder lid slots (why have slots?) are pretty soon propolised and so is the little sliding metal door, but that tells us something we knew already: bees don't like top ventilation. We knew it, so why not poly hive manufacturers?

Long way to go before one poly National system emerges as the finished article, but at least Abelo are way in front.
 
I use a Sublimox and dont even bother sealing the entrances there is enough of the product getting into the hive .
Why do you need to clean the top feeder if anything just give it a blast with the hose pipe.
 
Whilst I usually agree with much of what Apiarist says on his blog I thought this one was out of order. He essentially was moaning that the floor wasn't designed to be sealed when vaping.
I can't think of a single floor Poly or otherwise) that was designed with vaping in mind. Kind accident in the Paynes floors.
I also wasn't sure what points he was really making as I also use a sublimox for vaping and using Abelo standard floors with tray inserts an d encounter no problems when sublimation. So I thought the factual,content was incorrect and was simply written by someone who didn't like their floors and was prepared to write a whole article about them.
Now if he'd compared several varieties it would have been a fairer appraisal.

I think you'll find there are comparisons with at least two other floors including one truly excellent design from our very own Hivemaker ... ;)
 
I have been to Abelo today and spoke with Damian about the floor. He has done some studies to comapre wire screen and varroa mesh.
It looks like varroa falling on the wire can't easly get a grip of the wire screen compared to varroa droping on the mesh floor.
 
I think you'll find there are comparisons with at least two other floors including one truly excellent design from our very own Hivemaker ... ;)

Without going back and re-reading I recall the essential point you where making was the floor wasn't designed for to be sealed for vaping. Something it wasn't designed for....Bit like moaning about cars never being designed for outer space travel.
The sublimox does such a good delivery of OA vapour throughout the hive that fully sealing is quite an unnecessary faff. I rarely seal floors or entrances when vaping.
 
There lies the problem with National poly design: limited R&D that didn't investigate all angles and come up with solutions..

Eric as you seem to know all the answers....it must be time to set up your own business with the perfect poly hive and feeders.
You can't go wrong...
 
These floors are open mesh, or in this case open wire. They have been touted as ‘varroa floors’ since the idea that varroa just fall out of the hive was conceived.

Undoubtedly some (live) varroa might fall out, but that was not what the open mesh floors were used for. It was bottom ventilation, to avoid the stupid practices of leaving gaping holes in crownboards (or propping them open with matchsticks), particularly over the winter period.

Observant beekeepers had likely noticed that some feral colonies set up home without a solid floor beneath the nest and got along just nicely, so they added a non-solid floor to their colonies/hives. The mesh simply kept pests, like wasps, out. Only when varroa arrived, did some bright marketing spark star to call them ‘varroa floors’. Before that, they were simply open mesh floors.

Funny, how a lot of unknowing beeks got caught out by the marketing hype. And still are, apparently!
 
These floors are open mesh, or in this case open wire. They have been touted as ‘varroa floors’ since the idea that varroa just fall out of the hive was conceived.

Undoubtedly some (live) varroa might fall out, but that was not what the open mesh floors were used for. It was bottom ventilation, to avoid the stupid practices of leaving gaping holes in crownboards (or propping them open with matchsticks), particularly over the winter period.

Observant beekeepers had likely noticed that some feral colonies set up home without a solid floor beneath the nest and got along just nicely, so they added a non-solid floor to their colonies/hives. The mesh simply kept pests, like wasps, out. Only when varroa arrived, did some bright marketing spark star to call them ‘varroa floors’. Before that, they were simply open mesh floors.
Funny, how a lot of unknowing beeks got caught out by the marketing hype. And still are, apparently!

:iagree: apparently OMF have very little effect on mite control, just marketing hype now taken as gospel
 
Why do you need to clean the top feeder if anything just give it a blast with the hose pipe.
Drowned bees in the feeder slot (probably as temps drop late in the season) need to be cleaned out, and the paint on the inside of the box gets mouldy, sometimes even with thymolated syrup.
 
Eric as you seem to know all the answers.
Nope.

Just that I'm fed up with the pain (to quote MC) of buying gear that turns out to need work to make it efficient and useful, and spending time and money doing it.

Any number of examples. Here's one: years ago when M'more brought out the green box feeder it seemed a good price etc. Should have bought one but had faith, so bought ten; within a year the floor ribs that kept the box level were warping. Boxes rocked about and let out heat at a time of year when it mattered. Not much to do but shave them level, but of course that eventually made the problem worse.

Rang M'more and they confessed readily to the structural fault, which had since those early days been resolved. As I didn't find out about the problem until I used the boxes (later than when I bought them) and had since taken a cutter to them, I could hardly claim a refund. They're sitting in an apiary gathering grass. You want them?

Seems that many don't care about poor design or workmanship and would rather put up and fiddle a solution. If a mainstream manufacturer - cars, cereals, curtains, it doesn't matter - put out a product with the faults that beekeepers tolerate, there would be complaints and recalls and compensation. That costs, so generally manufacturers spend the money upfront to eradicate faults before coming to market. Of course, they're obliged to do some of that by law, but the other benefit is that Aston Martin ends up with a better reputation than an Austin Allegro and a better chance of thriving in the market. No, I don't want a floor at an Aston Martin price, and a decent floor won't that need that level of R&D cash.

Heard of the Ford Edsel? They spent $250m and hoped to make $350m but it was canned after two years, and this is what was said about it: "As for the design," Brooks writes, "it was arrived at without even a pretense of consulting the polls, and by the method that has been standard for years in the designing of automobiles — that of simply pooling the hunches of sundry company committees." Sound familiar?

So no, I'm not going to spend £18 on a multi-purpose board (it's not a crownboard) that sort of works, and I'm not going to spend £25 or £35 on anyone's floor if I can make a JBM floor which does the job cost-effectively.

If small manufacturers don't have the skill or cash to design out faults before commissioning expensive moulds, they ought to pause and re-consider whether to jump in and muddy the waters of a small pond. Why not join together and produce one simple system that works? Bees can do it, but then as we know, humans don't think like bees often enough.
 
I'll take that as a "no" then.... ;)

Add in the Maisies poly nucs early entrance disks where the queen excluder section was actually bee excluder size....
 

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