Abelo Poly Hive and frame spacing

[JohnRB]

I've been using Abelo polyhives for the last 3 years and generally I like them. The bees have overwintered well and grown stongly each spring. The problem is the frames are very tight. As the season goes on and the bees have propolised everything, I've found that 11 frames don't really fit. I started noticing the problem last year and tried giving the frames a good scrape. That partially sorted it for a while. I then tried going down to 10 frames and a dummy board, but ended up going to double brood just to give them enough space. After a good scrape at the start of this season and rotating some of the oldest frames out and replacing with new, I went back to 11 frames single box. But, this year seems to be a very sticky year. Propolis everywhere and no matter how much I scrape off it is building up again and the frames are very tight. I now find it impossible to get the first frame out without badly rolling the bees. It's only a matter of time before I squish a queen. Is anyone else having this problem? Solutions? I really don't want to go back to double brood again.

 

[Haughton Honey]

I've been using Abelo polyhives for the last 3 years and generally I like them. The bees have overwintered well and grown stongly each spring. The problem is the frames are very tight. As the season goes on and the bees have propolised everything, I've found that 11 frames don't really fit. I started noticing the problem last year and tried giving the frames a good scrape. That partially sorted it for a while. I then tried going down to 10 frames and a dummy board, but ended up going to double brood just to give them enough space. After a good scrape at the start of this season and rotating some of the oldest frames out and replacing with new, I went back to 11 frames single box. But, this year seems to be a very sticky year. Propolis everywhere and no matter how much I scrape off it is building up again and the frames are very tight. I now find it impossible to get the first frame out without badly rolling the bees. It's only a matter of time before I squish a queen. Is anyone else having this problem? Solutions? I really don't want to go back to double brood again.

If you’re using the National brood box then why not consider moving to Lyson’s 14x12 with a dummy board?

It MAY suit you better.

 

[JohnRB]

Yes, should have said I'm using national standard deep. I'm tempted to move to the larger box - it's just all my hives and frames are standard deep and I'd rather stick with one type.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I’ll second 14x12
I have Swienty hives and they take ten frames. The bigger box is definitely better

 

[ericbeaumont]

I've been using Abelo polyhives for the last 3 years and generally I like them. The problem is the frames are very tight. As the season goes on and the bees have propolised everything, I've found that 11 frames don't really fit. Is anyone else having this problem? Solutions? I really don't want to go back to double brood again.

The Abelo National takes 11 x DNs and gives about 8-10 mm of spare space at either end of the box, which leaves room to move a frame and get the first one out. I use those boxes without dummy boards and they work fine, though I do compact the Hoffmans tight at each visit and share the end space equally; wild comb is inevitable if the frames are pushed to one end of the box. I'd have to work hard to make 11 a tight squeeze.

DNs seem to vary in width of Hoffman: for example, Abelo frames chamfer off the peak of the pointy Hoffman (cannot think of any good reason to do so) with the result that the spare box space is about 15-20mm more than if the Hoffmans are properly pointy.

Double or triple deeps works for me: flexible for vertical splits, not too heavy when a full check is needed, not too heavy when used as a super. I ran 14x12s and found that the 41% extra brood space they give was often not enough, and the idea of double-brooding heavy 14x12s...

 

[Beefriendly]

A single 14 x 12 brood box is too small for today's prolific queens and double brood of that size and weight.... tricky.

 

[Erichalfbee]

A single 14 x 12 brood box is too small for today's prolific queens and double brood of that size and weight.... tricky.

Perhaps we could consider going double medium Lang?
You can even put one of those fancy supers with a tap on top?

 

[Beefriendly]

Perhaps we could consider going double medium Lang?
You can even put one of those fancy supers with a tap on top?

Many Lang users already do...but with normal supers on top.
Some of the wiser? are moving to Dadant...as Br. Adam used(modified) for his prolific Buckfast bees .

 

[Erichalfbee]

Many Lang users already do...but with normal supers on top.
Some of the wiser? are moving to Dadant...as Br. Adam used(modified) for his prolific Buckfast bees .

The last sentence was tongue in cheek
If I was starting out now I’d buy poly langs

 

[Beefriendly]

Nah I would never have guessed I think I forgot a smiley after normal supers on top:::: LOL

 

[Haughton Honey]

A single 14 x 12 brood box is too small for today's prolific queen....

Not quite sure that I agree with you there. 14x12 aren’t too dissimilar to Commercial when it comes to available cells and the brood area. There’s no reason that they can’t cope with a strong Buckfast/Carni Q and as they’d be in a poly hive they’d happily draw and lay on the outside frames too (more easily than in a cedar brood box).

However, I do agree that a vertical split would be more challenging and might suit a beekeeper who wears a larger suit!

 

[JohnRB]

I think, having read the above, and to keep things simple, I'm going to go to double brood using standard deep with 10 frames per box. That way I can continue with just the one size of kit, 20 frames should be plenty of space and I won't have to worry about tight frames. I'll just have to get used to inspecting double brood again.

 

[ericbeaumont]

20 frames should be plenty of space.

If necessary, John, you can downsize to 10 or upgrade to 30 without too much trouble. In other words, though a National deep is not big enough by itself, it gives great flexibility, a practical asset not easily achieved with Commercial or 14x12.

I too would choose poly Lang if starting again, but the National is fine if used fluidly. The metaphor I use with beginners: a hive is an accordion: it can be played vertically or horizontally and either squeezed or stretched. If you get it right it plays a sweet tune.

 

[GuyNir]

The metaphor I use with beginners: a hive is an accordion: it can be played vertically or horizontally and either squeezed or stretched. If you get it right it plays a sweet tune.

Like that