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Angry_Mob 

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There is indeed one. The problem faced by the poly makers is that in order to keep the thermal efficiency the walls are a certain thickness. If you want o keep 11 frames then the external dimension is greater than standard. If you want to keep external dimension standard then the internal is reduced -10 frames
Abelo managed to get the correct external dimensions and still hold 11 frames on the original hive and v2.

Every iteration seems to be a case of one step forward and two steps back.
 

jenkinsbrynmair 

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There are two sizes of Hoffmann frames . the narrow size fits 12 to the BS Box .
There are two sizes, yes - one size fits eleven to a box with a little spare (the size now sold by the majority of suppliers - certainly all the mainstream ones) and the older dimension ones which fit ten to a box - or exactly eleven with no extra space for a dummy board (can't recall which at the moment).
 

rolande 

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There are two sizes of Hoffmann frames . the narrow size fits 12 to the BS Box .
Yes, the old inch and half spacing which the national was built around and the modern spacing of which you can squeeze 12 into the box when they're clean and free from propolis.

We use BS boxes that originally came from Manley's set up (and newer ones made to order of course). In his books he always refers to them as 12 frame boxes but we fit, comfortably, 13 of the new, narrower frames in each box.

Edit: despite holding BS frames they definitely aren't 'national' hives.
 

victor meldrew 

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Yes, the old inch and half spacing which the national was built around and the modern spacing of which you can squeeze 12 into the box when they're clean and free from propolis.

We use BS boxes that originally came from Manley's set up (and newer ones made to order of course). In his books he always refers to them as 12 frame boxes but we fit, comfortably, 13 of the new, narrower frames in each box.

Edit: despite holding BS frames they definitely aren't 'national' hives.
I run bs 14 x 12s but use eleven in the brood boxes, the twelve acts as a dummy board . .
 

ericbeaumont 

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It doesn't matter how thick the poly is on the outside
It does: rain sits on the ledges and can enter more easily on mixed boxes. Storage of standard boxes is more efficient than mix'n'match, transport ditto. Bigger boxes use more natural resources; complicated boxes with vast, unnecessary landing boards take more energy to design and produce; multiple designers sitting in multiple offices resolving similar factors is wasteful.

You may think that such small aspects of one object may not make much of a practical or global difference, but if the design and production of more objects were standardised the cumulative environmental and practical savings would be significant. Alas, we've lost the plot when it comes to UK poly hive manufacture because the interested parties didn't see the bigger picture, pick up the phone and work to pool resources.

The jumble of designs we have now would have made Einstein smile because he understood the principle of decision fatigue: his wardrobe held only five suits and he wore them in rotation, and for good reason: the brain energy needed to decide what to wear was eliminated. Why does Mark Zuckerberg do the same? Why did Steve Jobs? Barack Obama understood the idea and wore the same coloured suit every day. Wearing one design freed them to use the saved energy to make bigger decisions.

This applies to beekeepers as much as world leaders because the use of common equipment prevents decision fatigue. If you're like me then you'll have a ragbag collection of National gear that more or less works. Can I stick that BHS National poly brood onto a sixty year old Steele & Brodie floor? Er, maybe, but it takes fiddling to consider, try it, bung it on and hope that it works. It will, but faffing consumes precious energy and decision fatigue will kick in eventually.

A hive should be like a uniform: standard issue; I dream of such a day.
 
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Newbeeneil 

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Thanks Eric, I can now tell my wife why I wear the same style clothes day in and day out!
 

Erichalfbee 

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It does: rain sits on the ledges and can enter more easily on mixed boxes. Storage of standard boxes is more efficient than mix'n'match, and transport ditto. Bigger boxes use more natural resources; complicated boxes with vast, unnecessary landing boards take more energy to design and produce; multiple designers sitting in multiple offices resolving similar factors is wasteful.

You may think that such small aspects of one object may not make much of a practical or global difference, but if the design and production of more objects were standardised the cumulative environmental and practical savings would be significant. Alas, we've lost the plot when it comes to UK poly hive manufacture because the interested parties didn't see the bigger picture, pick up the phone and work to pool resources.

The jumble of designs we have now would have made Einstein smile because he understood the principle of decision fatigue: his wardrobe held only five suits and he wore them in rotation, and for good reason: the brain energy needed to decide what to wear was eliminated. Why does Mark Zuckerberg do the same? Why did Steve Jobs? Barack Obama understood the idea and wore the same coloured suit every day. Wearing one design freed them to use the saved energy to make bigger decisions.

This applies to beekeepers as much as world leaders because the use of common equipment prevents decision fatigue. If you're like me then you'll have a ragbag collection of National gear that more or less works. Can I stick that BHS National poly brood onto a sixty year old Steele & Brodie floor? Er, maybe, but it takes fiddling to consider, try it, bung it on and hope that it works. It will, but faffing consumes precious energy and decision fatigue will kick in eventually.

A hive should be like a uniform: standard issue; I dream of such a day.
Oh no what a grey life that would be.
I cherish the days of looking at a bed covered in clothes only to go out partying in the first outfit I picked.
 

ericbeaumont 

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Oh no what a grey life that would be.
looking at a bed covered in clothes only to go out partying in the firs
But an apiary is no place for multiple choices: Imelda Marcos* would have made a very bad beekeeper with significant decision fatigue.

*The wife of the President of the Philippines amassed 3,000 designs of one object: shoes.
 
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Erichalfbee 

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But an apiary is no place for multiple chouces
I was alluding to this part of your post

The jumble of designs we have now would have made Einstein smile because he understood the principle of decision fatigue: his wardrobe held only five suits and he wore them in rotation, and for good reason: the brain energy needed to decide what to wear was eliminated. Why does Mark Zuckerberg do the same? Why did Steve Jobs? Barack Obama understood the idea and wore the same coloured suit every day. Wearing one design freed them to use the saved energy to make bigger decisions.
 

jenkinsbrynmair 

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I've worn uniform most of my adult life, it's wonderful, no real need to decide what to wear in the mornings apart from 'Airport - No1's Docks - Blues and boots, summer - shirtsleeve order, court No1's even better on the boats as it was always blues unless there was a 'cake and arse' event when it was either white shirts or No1's
 

Antipodes 

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It does: rain sits on the ledges and can enter more easily on mixed boxes. Storage of standard boxes is more efficient than mix'n'match, and transport ditto. Bigger boxes use more natural resources; complicated boxes with vast, unnecessary landing boards take more energy to design and produce; multiple designers sitting in multiple offices resolving similar factors is wasteful.

You may think that such small aspects of one object may not make much of a practical or global difference, but if the design and production of more objects were standardised the cumulative environmental and practical savings would be significant. Alas, we've lost the plot when it comes to UK poly hive manufacture because the interested parties didn't see the bigger picture, pick up the phone and work to pool resources.

The jumble of designs we have now would have made Einstein smile because he understood the principle of decision fatigue: his wardrobe held only five suits and he wore them in rotation, and for good reason: the brain energy needed to decide what to wear was eliminated. Why does Mark Zuckerberg do the same? Why did Steve Jobs? Barack Obama understood the idea and wore the same coloured suit every day. Wearing one design freed them to use the saved energy to make bigger decisions.

This applies to beekeepers as much as world leaders because the use of common equipment prevents decision fatigue. If you're like me then you'll have a ragbag collection of National gear that more or less works. Can I stick that BHS National poly brood onto a sixty year old Steele & Brodie floor? Er, maybe, but it takes fiddling to consider, try it, bung it on and hope that it works. It will, but faffing consumes precious energy and decision fatigue will kick in eventually.

A hive should be like a uniform: standard issue; I dream of such a day.
langstroth, langstroth, langstroth
 

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