A task: you buy a 2.0 kg swarm. How many bees you have there

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Go back to watching fantasy island and sipping tea. You will be measurably happier not actually having to think about anything so troubling as beekeeping. As for small cell foundation, if you have not tried it, why do you even comment?
 
As for small cell foundation, if you have not tried it, why do you even comment?

In Helsinki University they taught me 6 years to learn from other people, what they have achieved and what they have found out. They taught that do not waste your talents and only life with repeating other's mistakes and inventing a wheel.

Every guy in Finland reported, that bees made pure mesh combs. Bees teared down foundations and made 5.3 size combs and all that drone rubbis.

You have worked 10 years and you have got 0.1 mm away from your cells.
And you insist that you have got huge spring build up. And your combs are still normal size.

I can see from your stories, without repeating your mistakes, that your bee genepool has serious inbreeding problems. You should know that 20 hives is too small genepool to develope own bee strain.

I have had 20 hives bee stock 50 years. I have seen several times what happens when inbreeding spoils my apiary. I have renewed my apiary genepool several times for that reason. One changing is just going on. And new queens are fantastic.




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Go back to watching fantasy island and sipping tea. ?

I have never lived in Fantasy and I drink coffee.

When you get 130 kg average honey yield, call to me. But you told, that you have not time to move your hives to good pastures. Instead, you have time to your fantasy works.

In your climate you should get 300 kg honey like Australian beekeepers.

Why I am so harch to you? .. Because you try to poke me in every corner with those populistic claims.
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interesting perspective finman. Do you even see the posts JBM makes? or have you blocked him out? Because my post was a response to JBM, not to you.

As for learning from the mistakes of others, can you point at a study about the effects of small cell foundation and what it found? I can point to the only one relevant to your position. I found it relatively easy to get bees to accept and properly use small cell combs.

Foundation costs the same amount whether it is 5.4, 5.1, or 4.9 cell imprint. There is no price benefit involved in using a given size. Bees naturally build cells in a range of sizes from about 4.3 up to about 5.7 for workers. The average works out to about 5.1. The original reason for making foundation in 5.3 or 5.4 was because the resulting bees were larger and were thought to be able to carry more nectar. This was never fully proven, particularly with regard to carrying larger loads. I can see visible differences in the size of workers from large cell combs, but the funny thing is that small cell bees from 4.9 mm cells have the same size wings as larger bees from 5.4 mm cells. Can the larger bees truly carry larger loads?

The big hoopla about small cell was started by Dee Luzby when she determined that it was more nearly what bees build naturally and made claims that small cell bees are resistant to varroa. This was tested under fairly rigorous conditions by Berry a few years ago and shown that small cell has no measurable impact on varroa population in a hive. I decided to get off of treatments in 2005 and was able to do so by getting genetics that could handle varroa. At the time, I did not know if small cell would benefit or not so I also converted most of my bees to small cell at the same time. As I have previously stated, my bees survive just fine whether on 4.9 mm or regular 5.4 mm combs. I can't show any benefit in terms of mite resistance associated with small cell.

I have used 31.5 mm frames since 1977 and like the benefits. They cause a marked increase in colony buildup speed in spring. I can provide references if you would like to read about the effect. When I put bees on both small cell combs and narrow 31.5 mm frames, there was another boost in spring buildup. This gave two tools to manipulate the spring buildup cycle using natural spring pollen and nectar flows.

There was one significant side effect to the small cell narrow frames. Spring swarming was increased, mostly because the bees reach peak population 2 or 3 weeks before the main flow. To manage swarming, I pull a spring split from each large colony and use the increase either for my own colonies or to sell to other beekeepers. Swarming is also a strong genetic trait and one that I did not attempt to influence in the years since I stopped treating for varroa. I let the susceptible colonies die and increased the colony count each spring from the survivors.

Now go back to your bees and ask why you are using electric heaters and pollen patties? Is it not for the same reason that I am using small cell and narrow frames?
 
Now go back to your bees and ask why you are using electric heaters and pollen patties? Is it not for the same reason that I am using small cell and narrow frames?
More likely because he lives in Finland, which is an extreme environment for bees.
 
interesting perspective finman. Do you even see the posts JBM makes? or have you blocked him out? Because my post was a response to JBM, not to you.

As for learning from the mistakes of others, can you point at a study about the effects of small cell foundation and what it found? I can point to the only one relevant to your position. I found it relatively easy to get bees to accept and properly use small cell combs.

Foundation costs the same amount whether it is 5.4, 5.1, or 4.9 cell imprint. There is no price benefit involved in using a given size. Bees naturally build cells in a range of sizes from about 4.3 up to about 5.7 for workers. The average works out to about 5.1. The original reason for making foundation in 5.3 or 5.4 was because the resulting bees were larger and were thought to be able to carry more nectar. This was never fully proven, particularly with regard to carrying larger loads. I can see visible differences in the size of workers from large cell combs, but the funny thing is that small cell bees from 4.9 mm cells have the same size wings as larger bees from 5.4 mm cells. Can the larger bees truly carry larger loads?

The big hoopla about small cell was started by Dee Luzby when she determined that it was more nearly what bees build naturally and made claims that small cell bees are resistant to varroa. This was tested under fairly rigorous conditions by Berry a few years ago and shown that small cell has no measurable impact on varroa population in a hive. I decided to get off of treatments in 2005 and was able to do so by getting genetics that could handle varroa. At the time, I did not know if small cell would benefit or not so I also converted most of my bees to small cell at the same time. As I have previously stated, my bees survive just fine whether on 4.9 mm or regular 5.4 mm combs. I can't show any benefit in terms of mite resistance associated with small cell.

I have used 31.5 mm frames since 1977 and like the benefits. They cause a marked increase in colony buildup speed in spring. I can provide references if you would like to read about the effect. When I put bees on both small cell combs and narrow 31.5 mm frames, there was another boost in spring buildup. This gave two tools to manipulate the spring buildup cycle using natural spring pollen and nectar flows.

There was one significant side effect to the small cell narrow frames. Spring swarming was increased, mostly because the bees reach peak population 2 or 3 weeks before the main flow. To manage swarming, I pull a spring split from each large colony and use the increase either for my own colonies or to sell to other beekeepers. Swarming is also a strong genetic trait and one that I did not attempt to influence in the years since I stopped treating for varroa. I let the susceptible colonies die and increased the colony count each spring from the survivors.

Now go back to your bees and ask why you are using electric heaters and pollen patties? Is it not for the same reason that I am using small cell and narrow frames?

Small cells and narrow frames... What next. I recommend Russian Langstroth poly boxes. It is enough strange.
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That your beekeeping is amazing. I bet that no one is able to walk in you boot prints. Your habit to keep bees is very complex.

Now I go back to your bees and I let you continue your life style.
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I do not wish good luck to you, because you do not manage out with luck from your innovative style. You really need use your brains to clear out, what are you doing.
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Strawberry on your cake is that "mite resistant smell antenna structure", what you will reviele out under microscope. Connected to Russian frame size result will be great. We will see a light at the end of tunnel. It is a train, but do not mind about that.

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This is good stand up comics training. One of us will some day will join to " entertainment industry" and he will be rich. We have in forum some promising persons.

Some have mere old jokes and they wil not have future in entertainment industry.

Welsh humour is so well hidden, that no one want to pay for it.
Perhaps dog owners understand it.
 
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If you buy 2.0kg of bees you have 2.0kg of bees or am i missing something.

2kg of bees full of sugar syrup are approximately 2/3rds the number of 2kg of "empty" bees.
 
.if you buy bees... Quite many buy packages and swarms.. Or sell.

You cannot draw jokes from it. It is Impossible-.
 
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Fusion Power told, that his small cell hive are much more effective than normall size bees.

If that is true, why evolution has not find that opportunity, that with smaller cells a bug will do better in natural competition.

When I was in Malaysea and I met there an Apis cerana hive, they were really small and cells were small too.

Evolution surely has alternatives, but why it has not selected smaller bees to Europe? In south, like in Africa, Scutellata is 10% smaller than European bees.

Modern foundation is compromise between different bee races. Carniolan bee makes biggest cells in nature.

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I looked Africanized / Killer bee weight. It is on average 90 mg. Drone is 120-160 mg. European drone is 170 mg.
 
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Answers com says that honey bee worker weighs 0.5 grams.

. Another answer com says that it is 90 mg.
And drone 170 mg.


Coloss says that workers' weigh is 120 mg at its emergence. Drones are huge in coloss. They are 220 mg.
 
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Bergmann's rule might be applicable though it is not normally applied to insects. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bergmann's_rule

I would limit "more effective" for small cell bees to a narrow window during spring buildup. I have not seen a benefit at other times of year. As I stated, they have a more compact brood nest and can build up faster than bees on combs spaced wider or with larger cells.
 
How much of a difference in bee size is attributable to different foundation and/or frame measurements?

This is an excel formula to calculate the number of cells in a given comb size. 203 * 425 is the mm dimensions of a Langstroth deep frame. Substitute the millimeters of your frame size to get the cell counts. 5.3 is standard foundation. If you want other sizes such as 5.1 or 4.9, replace 5.3 in the formula.

=ROUND(((203 * 425) / ((5.3 ^ 2) * 0.866)) * 2,0)

4.9 foundation cell counts
11 1/4: 10513 (Dadant)
9 1/8: 8307 (Langstroth deep)
7 1/4: 6360 (Western)
6 1/4: 5322 (Medium)
5 3/8: 4413 (shallow)

5.1 foundation cell counts
11 1/4: 9705
9 1/8: 7668
7 1/4: 5871
6 1/4: 4912
5 3/8: 4074

5.3 foundation cell counts
11 1/4: 8986
9 1/8: 7100 (* this is standard Langstroth deep foundation cells per frame)
7 1/4: 5436
6 1/4: 4549
5 3/8: 3772

7.1 drone foundation cell counts (* The hive and the honeybee gives 6.67 for drone combs!)
11 1/4: 5007
9 1/8: 3956
7 1/4: 3029
6 1/4: 2535
5 3/8: 2102
 
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I count my hive size with number of boxes. That cell size counting I do not understand.

And I and happy if my hive has one box filled with pollen after main yield.
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(have a look in a dictionary - a proper English one)
I've noted your idiosyncrasy of using grandiloquent histrionics to discountenance impecunious abecedarians and wanted to congratulate your command of the English language. Did you win the spelling bee in school often?

Finman, what size bee is ideal?
 

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