A swarm today

[Queen Brenda]

I am away from home for the weekend and my neighbour phoned indignantly about 2 pm to say our bees were 'clustering' in her garden. I rang my mentor, Dave, from my local association, who charged round there and took away 2 cast swarms. No large swarm found in the garden. The neighbour took him into our garden and he found our bees going about their business calmly in all 3 hives. He has very tactfully told the neighbour that this may mean that it was from someone else's colonies.

Seems very early but I have been holding off inspecting because it's been so cold. Feeling very guilty.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

II rang my mentor, Dave, from my local association, who charged round there and took away 2 cast swarms. .

How did he know they were cast swarms?

 

[Queen Brenda]

I think because the two swarms were the size of rugby balls. Isn't that rather small?

 

[MuswellMetro]

The few beekeepers i mentor in london,were advised by me to lift the crown board and check the cluster size at least a fortnight ago. London has its own micro climate normally 14 days inadvanced of the rest of the UK ( except the SW) and if they appeared large then to put on a super with insulation above so the can move brood stores upwards

This year we are behind the london norm by at least a week, i would expect in a normal year swarms by mid April but expect them now at the end of april

two caste, hmmm i expect more likley a split swarm due to the cold today (14c max)

what was your varroa drop with oxalic as high varroa loads seem to set off early swarm behaviour

 

[theeggman]

MM,
Down here in the 'Tropical' SW our bees are gaining webbed feet, today is dry and sunny and it looks good for the week so I "may" have a look soon but prior to this the wind/ temp has just been too carp to even think about opening.

 

[Queen Brenda]

Well that's what I thought but they were obviously in there making cunning plans. I'm very cross with them.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I think because the two swarms were the size of rugby balls. Isn't that rather small?

the size of the swarm has nothing to do with whether it is a cast or not, so unless he could tell for certain the queen was a virgin, no way could he ascertain it was a cast. The otherr way was if he knew there were newly emerged virgins in an otherwise Q- hive and he saw the swarm leave.
If it was a cast this would imply the original colony would have probably left a fortnight ago.

 

[enrico]

I agree, probably one swarm that had not quite got together yet. If they had been left a while they would probably have ended up in one mass! Very early though, have you been over feeding?
E

 

[oliver90owner]

Seems to me a case of wait and see. Away for a weekend is not going to affect anything (unless there are more cast a to come -ha ha).

I suggest you inspect at the earliest opportunity simply to ascertain whether any of your colonies are currently between queens. If they were casts (which I very much doubt at this time of the year!), there should have been a prime swarm a week ago, or more.

Then you can warn all your close apiarists of the situation. Likely a constricted brood box, more than anything else?

RAB

 

[Queen Brenda]

Overfeeding? Well, i had just replenished their fondant because on hefting, I thought they were light and they had gobbled up the kilo or so I had put on 10 days before and it was cold. The 3 colonies have eaten a total of 25Kg over the winter. I will inspect as soon as I can, presumably being very careful indeed not to damage any Q cells. According to Dave, they were going anout their business as usual, with pollen going in normally in all 3 hives while he was collecting the swarm.

 

[itma]

... According to Dave, they were going anout their business as usual, with pollen going in normally in all 3 hives while he was collecting the swarm.

While that might perhaps suggest that this was not casting from those colonies, it certainly doesn't indicate that those hives had not newly lost a prime swarm.

I'd also suspect a prime swarm from a congested brood box. Any casting would follow, depending on the weather, about a week later - less if the prime swarm were delayed by bad weather.

 

[Mellifera397]

they were going anout their business as usual

You'll ne surprised how quickly a parent colony will return to business as usual after throwing a swarm. Only way to know for certain is to inspect.

M

 

[Queen Brenda]

More swarmy activity today

The world's gone mad......neighbour very excited again as 2 more clusters of bees in her bush. My husband inspected our 3 hives to find all well in 2 but a solitary sealed QC in the 3rd. Apparently no other brood but lots of drones around, stores ok and a lot of bees in residence, acting normal.

I will look again on Thursday but surely a single sealed QC won't produce a fertilised Q in time to save the current colony if no other BIAS around?

He is currently coaxing the 2 clusters into a nuc but will they each have a Q or are they panicking workers?

 

[Erichalfbee]

surely a single sealed QC won't produce a fertilised Q in time to save the current colony

Not this one. Produced in desperation by the bees on drone larva.

 

[Queen Brenda]

Erica, many thanks for the reply - do you mean that this cluster/swarm won't have a viable Q, or that the hive with no BIAS? Is that sealed QC that husband saw was a converted drone and therefore no good? Sorry for all the questions but we are very confused as to next steps!

 

[Erichalfbee]

I'm talking about the hive with no brood at all.....except this sealed QC

 

[Queen Brenda]

Aha. That's what I thought. Ok then, we should unite with another hive or obtain a new queen ASAP.

 

[beeno]

Hi Brenda,
May I suggest that you sort out all the swarms to find your marked queens or laying queens first of all. Many swarms with virgins don't get mated this time of the year. If you indeed have a drone laying queen, she needs to be squished before you can introduce a new queen. Lots of work to do. Keep calm and carry on.

 

[oliver90owner]

Think here. No other brood, worker or drone, so lets assume this queen cellwas one of the last laid. That would mean it has so far been there three weeks? At least. Not a viable queen cell given the timescale. Probably far more ancient, or as Erichalfbee suggested, a kingcell.

Now to the adult bees. How many drones? Evidence of drone brood from worker cells? Are there going to be any spring brooded workers?

Guessing. You had a drone layer, but now a non-layer or non existent. Colony is doomed and probably not worth uniting. This is all assuming your husband's observations are correct, which I have no reason to disbelieve.

It is unlikely to have issued a swarm recently unless there are lots of workers and already a new unmated
queen in residence, but is a likely candidate. Possible they were superceding and they changed their minds and the queen swarmed?

Uniting or requeening would needchecks for an incumbent queen or you are likely to lose another queen and be in morectrouble if it is one in your OK colonies.

Think I have exhausted the possibilities, so back to you for more detail or proper diagnosis.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

very excited again as 2 more clusters of bees in her bush.

Well you would.