a reBees lost

[Silver]

Hi
Im new to beekeeping, I set up my first hive last year after a 28 year permission from the wife wait!

I obtained the bees from a local friend, but had a niggle about the quality of them. However they seemed very busy and quite prolific, but I did notice a lot of bees wandering around in the front of the hive looking somewhat lost - i spent time picking them up and putting then on the landing board. I then treated for Varroa in September, after I had harvested the honey, unfortunately late last year I had a feeling and inspected the hive on a warmish day, it was completely dead. I was clearly intrigued what had finished them off, and on closer inspection ( I had a board placed under the hive) when i took the hive apart I found varroa, on speaking to my "supplier" he said ahh yeah varroa. In my opinion the hive simply wasn't strong enough to cope with the varroa that were clearly endemic in my hive.

I have now ordered two overwintered Nuc's from a reputable supplier, that guarantees bug free etc, so whilst I intend keeping them that way, it produces a number of questions for me.

I have a relatively full brood box, with the exception of the main brood chambers which I have destroyed, the rest are packed full with stores, however these have been treated with Varroa packs late last year. I also have a super which is mostly full of 60-80% developed comb and some stores. I am aware that these cant be harvested, but I would like opinions on if they can be used as stores for my new NUC's, as if they can then this will give them a great start for the new year - when they arrive of course!

On a footnote - im loving my new hobby but with Covid I am reliant on You Tube and forums for advice, I only had one hive last year and started in June, but have another one now which is in the garden so easy to watch them which is fascinating. I look forward to your replies and any tips appreciated !

 

[Apple]

I have now ordered two overwintered Nuc's from a reputable supplier, that guarantees bug free etc, so whilst I intend keeping them that way, it produces a number of questions for me.

Ask your SBI to inspect them before you take delivery, no reputable supplier would refuse?
Has your area been infected with EFB... in which case again ask your SBI about your colony that died out.... The bactera will be in the comb/dead bees....
All colonies in the UK mainland have Varroa to some extent... treatment will keep it to an "acceptable level"

I remember picking up nucs ( wood ones) from Paynes at Hassocks and sitting in the back seat of Grandad's Bond mini 3 wheeler with them on my lap... all the way back to Wallington!
Happy pre Varroa days!

Chons da

 

[Ian123]

No supplier can guarantee bug free no such thing. A number of suppliers would not welcome any BI inspection as it’s certainly not the norm and quite frankly they wouldn’t have the time. You’d stand much more chance of getting the bloke down the road to agree to an inspection. Ian

 

[drex]

As some one new to beekeeping you cannot be sure why they died, so any old frames and boxes could still contain disease, so I would not re use the frames. The boxes can be sterilised with a blow torch. Feed your nucs sugar syrup if you wish.
I suggest you get yourself a good book rather than relying on YouTube. Haynes manual is said to be good for beginners and Ted Hoopers of bees and honey is a more in depth book with loads of good and essential info

 

[ericbeaumont]

can be used as stores for my new NUC

Yes.

However, if your nucs are strong and take off they may (depending on the season) bring in nectar and won't need the stores. In fact, giving too much stores at this time can squeeze the queen for laying space and trigger the swarm switch (and it's a waste of time trying to find it).

Be ready to store the full combs in a sealed box; consider spraying them with Bruco or Dipel (share the cost with other beekeepers) or wax moth will ruin them.

I agree with Drex: although you believe varroa caused the colony death you don't really know, so destroy any brood combs. If you have any suspicions once the nucs are hived, call out your Seasonal Bee Inspector. The contact list is on Beebase (sign up while you're there and use gridreferencefinder.com for your apiary OS number) but is not yet up to date.

 

[Silver]

Thanks for the replies, its not EFB - definitely Varroas that caused the demise of my former colony - I've ordered my bees from Paynes! and hope ful to get a good bunch, which i'm confident I will.

Thanks for the advice though

 

[Silver]

As some one new to beekeeping you cannot be sure why they died, so any old frames and boxes could still contain disease, so I would not re use the frames. The boxes can be sterilised with a blow torch. Feed your nucs sugar syrup if you wish.
I suggest you get yourself a good book rather than relying on YouTube. Haynes manual is said to be good for beginners and Ted Hoopers of bees and honey is a more in depth book with loads of good and essential info

I have already read it - great book, but You Tube is also great !

Like anything you need to take a balanced view

 

[GuyNir]

Like anything you need to take a balanced view

Absolutely right.

 

[Amari]

Hi
Im new to beekeeping, I set up my first hive last year after a 28 year permission from the wife wait!

I obtained the bees from a local friend, but had a niggle about the quality of them. However they seemed very busy and quite prolific, but I did notice a lot of bees wandering around in the front of the hive looking somewhat lost - i spent time picking them up and putting then on the landing board. I then treated for Varroa in September, after I had harvested the honey, unfortunately late last year I had a feeling and inspected the hive on a warmish day, it was completely dead.

'bees wandering around': were they 'shivering' and shiny black? - this could be chronic bee paralysis virus CBPV (deploy the 'Search' tab) which is thought to be spread by varroa. Unlucky as you had treated them in September. It would be wise to seek advice from the bee inspector via Beebase tho' I'm not sure, being seasonal' if they're working yet.

I imagine, if this is the case, it would be wrong to reuse the combs. Slightly off topic: I've just lost a hive due to isolation starvation (mea culpa). I'm fumigating those combs with acetic acid to destroy wax moth and Nosema.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

You Tube is also great !

But like the curate's egg - only in places

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Hi
Im new to beekeeping, I set up my first hive last year after a 28 year permission from the wife wait!

I obtained the bees from a local friend, but had a niggle about the quality of them. However they seemed very busy and quite prolific, but I did notice a lot of bees wandering around in the front of the hive looking somewhat lost - i spent time picking them up and putting then on the landing board. I then treated for Varroa in September, after I had harvested the honey, unfortunately late last year I had a feeling and inspected the hive on a warmish day, it was completely dead. I was clearly intrigued what had finished them off, and on closer inspection ( I had a board placed under the hive) when i took the hive apart I found varroa, on speaking to my "supplier" he said ahh yeah varroa. In my opinion the hive simply wasn't strong enough to cope with the varroa that were clearly endemic in my hive.

I have now ordered two overwintered Nuc's from a reputable supplier, that guarantees bug free etc, so whilst I intend keeping them that way, it produces a number of questions for me.

I have a relatively full brood box, with the exception of the main brood chambers which I have destroyed, the rest are packed full with stores, however these have been treated with Varroa packs late last year. I also have a super which is mostly full of 60-80% developed comb and some stores. I am aware that these cant be harvested, but I would like opinions on if they can be used as stores for my new NUC's, as if they can then this will give them a great start for the new year - when they arrive of course!

On a footnote - im loving my new hobby but with Covid I am reliant on You Tube and forums for advice, I only had one hive last year and started in June, but have another one now which is in the garden so easy to watch them which is fascinating. I look forward to your replies and any tips appreciated !

As a beginner there are many things that can go wrong. Varroa is but one of them and rarely will a hive in the uk not have some of the mites. It can be effectively treated if you detect it.
Bees crawling around on the floor rings a couple of alarm bells. Chronic Bee Paralysis is one, poisoning is another. Both are previously mentioned in the forum if you search the database.
I strongly recommend you find a good mentor as experienced trained eyes will save you much potential grief.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

But like the curate's egg - only in places

Not many of them

 

[E&MBees]

As a beginner there are many things that can go wrong. Varroa is but one of them and rarely will a hive in the uk not have some of the mites. It can be effectively treated if you detect it.
Bees crawling around on the floor rings a couple of alarm bells. Chronic Bee Paralysis is one, poisoning is another. Both are previously mentioned in the forum if you search the database.
I strongly recommend you find a good mentor as experienced trained eyes will save you much potential grief.

There is a thread on here that I started last year about CBPV. I lost two colonies to it. I’m not sure how to put a link though. I had lots of very helpful advice. Photos or videos always help to clarify problems.
The thread that I started is called Lots of dead bees on the OMF.

 

[Erichalfbee]

There is a thread on here that I started last year about CBPV. I lost two colonies to it. I’m not sure how to put a link though. I had lots of very helpful advice. Photos or videos always help to clarify problems.
The thread that I started is called Lots of dead bees on the OMF.

https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/threads/lots-of-dead-bees-on-omf.46917/

 

[Silver]

'bees wandering around': were they 'shivering' and shiny black? - this could be chronic bee paralysis virus CBPV (deploy the 'Search' tab) which is thought to be spread by varroa. Unlucky as you had treated them in September. It would be wise to seek advice from the bee inspector via Beebase tho' I'm not sure, being seasonal' if they're working yet.

I imagine, if this is the case, it would be wrong to reuse the combs. Slightly off topic: I've just lost a hive due to isolation starvation (mea culpa). I'm fumigating those combs with acetic acid to destroy wax moth and Nosema.

Hi No the bees seemed ok, just a bit lost! They had all wings etc and didn't show any signs of varroa, also the hive seemed very healthy so it might just have been that these guys were non productive or at the end of their useful life cycle. As i mentioned it is all new to me, so maybe I am getting anxious about nothing. The hive is situated on a paved path, and not directly on grass so its easy to see any wandering around which I imagine on grass it isnt.

But thanks for the replies

 

[Silver]

I have now ordered two overwintered Nuc's from a reputable supplier, that guarantees bug free etc, so whilst I intend keeping them that way, it produces a number of questions for me.

Ask your SBI to inspect them before you take delivery, no reputable supplier would refuse?
Has your area been infected with EFB... in which case again ask your SBI about your colony that died out.... The bactera will be in the comb/dead bees....
All colonies in the UK mainland have Varroa to some extent... treatment will keep it to an "acceptable level"

I remember picking up nucs ( wood ones) from Paynes at Hassocks and sitting in the back seat of Grandad's Bond mini 3 wheeler with them on my lap... all the way back to Wallington!
Happy pre Varroa days!

Chons da

Hi I have ordered my new bees from Paynes, as I know them to be reputable, however last year there simply wasn't any supplies around at the time I was looking, so when I was offered these fairly local bees I went for it.

I dont think it was me that lost them, or lack of knowledge or care I believe I was simply unlucky, but hopefully with new well cared for hives then I will be able to overwinter.

 

[Abelha]

By all means buy your Nuc from Paynes but I hope you won't think that's a magic bullet against Varroa. We got a Nuc from Paynes in May last year, not sure how clean they were to start with but by Autumn there were plenty of Varroa to deal with.
Oh and strangely the supposedly 2020 queen had a green dot indicating she was actually a 2019 queen. Paynes answer to this "Please don’t worry about the colour of the queen, we don’t tend to worry too much about colours. We use whatever pen we happen to have on us at the time of marking them.".

 

[Hachi]

Hi
Im new to beekeeping, I set up my first hive last year after a 28 year permission from the wife wait!

Stuff that life's too short

 

[beeno]

Hi I have ordered my new bees from Paynes, as I know them to be reputable, however last year there simply wasn't any supplies around at the time I was looking, so when I was offered these fairly local bees I went for it.

I dont think it was me that lost them, or lack of knowledge or care I believe I was simply unlucky, but hopefully with new well cared for hives then I will be able to overwinter.

Luck does not come into it. Read up on winter preparations. September, is a bit late for varroa treatment as they are supposed to be the cohort producing the winter bees. What did you use? Bees that are diseased are kicked out of the hive and you will find them crawling away from the hive to die. There will always be some of them as most diseases are endemic in this country and others. Shame you destroyed the brood nest, as you could have sent the forum a foto, because that is the place to look for clues as to their demise. There will always be some varroa in a colony the trick is to keep it to acceptable levels. First year beekeepers often lose their colony me included. The trick is not to repeat mistakes.

 

[drex]

I still lose occasional hives. It is not bad luck. There is always something I could have done better. There are no Kamikaze bees. They want to survive and will do their best to ensure it. I can always learn from these experiences if I accept my role in it