3 season old feral colony.

[jenkinsbrynmair]

There was one talk at the convention this year which on the spur of the moment I fancied going to (partly as I discovered in a previous lecture the deliverer had an easy charismatic way of conveying his data) unfortunately I missed it because I was too busy talking Beekeeping development projects in Lesotho (did I mention that I'm known as the Bee Doctor out there? )
It was titled 'European honey bees surviving Varroa infestation without control' It was Peter Neumann (better not call him Professor again!) giving the talk on potential reasons for tolerance in those bees: Several honey bee populations in the USA, Sweden, France and Norway have survived moe than ten years without treatment. The Norwegian population is particularly promising (good traits - gentleness, good yields, low propensity to swarming) Really wish I'd made it now - maybe it's available online somewhere.
anyway, I'll get my coat..................... and my sandals

 

[Itchy]

Have 20 odd annoyingly healthy colonies, untreated for three years. One is still in a hollow tree.

 

[user 6228]

There was one talk at the convention this year....
It was titled 'European honey bees surviving Varroa infestation without control' It was Peter Neumann (better not call him Professor again!) giving the talk on potential reasons for tolerance in those bees: Several honey bee populations in the USA, Sweden, France and Norway have survived moe than ten years without treatment. The Norwegian population is particularly promising (good traits - gentleness, good yields, low propensity to swarming) Really wish I'd made it now - maybe it's available online somewhere.
anyway, I'll get my coat..................... and my sandals

I went to that talk very interesting summation about research into this unexpected development. He Didn't understand the relationship between heat flow and relative humidity in a cavity containing a heat and vapour source, though but then it isn't in his line.

 

[pargyle]

Wow ... I go to work for a few hours and some ...wit accuses ME of descending to insults ... Moi ? Never ?

I only pointed out that through a set of circumstances, that are so complex as to be unfathomable, the bees in my untreated hives are thriving - then World war III breaks out with the academic on one side and us mere mortals on the other.

I would define thriving (for the more learned amongst us) as increasing numbers of bees, BIAS on a fair number of frames (it was between 6 & 7 last time I looked but they've been very busy since then). An absence of brood disease and any disease such as DWV. Large numbers of bees flying and a full hive of bees when they are not and stores (Pollen, nectar, water) being brought in to the hive for them to fend for themselves without needing to be fed ... I don't count bees - just dead or dying varroa.

There are no signs of varroa actually on the bees as I look at them through my clear crownboards although, at present, there is a drop of between 1 and 5 mites a day on the inspection boards ... less in the Long deep hive which is actually the largest colony.

Most people on here will know what hives I have ... One highly insulated Long deep hive with 25 frames in it - sandwich construction timber poly timber, full mesh floor which is protected by a 'drawer' in which sits my inspection board. 100mm insulation under an insulated roof. The other two hives are standard Paynes polys with an inspection board 4" below the mesh floor and a super on top with 100mm Kingspan in it over a 6mm thick clear polycarbonate crownboard. The two polys both now have 10 frames in each of the brood boxes and are pretty stuffed with bees. All my hives have 14 x 12 frames.

But, as I keep saying, IMHO there's more to it than just the bees ... I can't prove anything but it appears to me that bees in 'warm' hives create stronger colonies and if these hives are in the 'right' location, with the 'right' forage, with the 'right' weather and the 'right' hive management ... and I cannot define any of these 'rights' ... then, with a modicum of luck, the bees will not only survive with some levels of varroa but will actually continue to thrive ... without treatment. But ... I don't know why !

The weather has deteriorated tonight down here so I won't be inspecting again unless it bucks up a bit but I suspect that there will be enough brood in the polys to warrant a super going on .. and I will keep adding frames and nicking honey filled ones from the LDH all the time now as they are more than capable of filling a couple of frames a week, if last year is anything to go by.

Some people will remain unconvinced that bees can survive without treatment - and nothing that I, or others, will say will convince them otherwise but there's enough people managing it for me to keep doing it ... until such time as my colonies appear to become 'unhealthy' and varroa appears to be the culprit .. at which point I may treat ... Never say never ...

 

[Thymallus]

I would define thriving (for the more learned amongst us) as increasing numbers of bees, BIAS on a fair number of frames (it was between 6 & 7 last time I looked but they've been very busy since then).

That is good and much better than I'd have expected from previous reports. Well done.
I agree about the poly hives producing stronger colonies. It makes a total sense....and don't let Jenkins histrionics get in the way of simple basic information transfer.
Information is what we all need and when Dishrag was refusing to provide any and heading off in his tree falling in forest evasion tactics it seemed perhaps there was something to hide. Opinions and beliefs are cheap.

Whose the academic BTW? Or are you confusing me with someone else?

 

[Finman]

.
Norway is last European country where varroa went. 50% of beekeeping area even does not have mites. Now they have allready mite resistant bee stock.

That is world record.

10 years ago there was a project in Norway where they researched small cell and varroa.
Researchers walked out from project because the owner of hives ordeted, what results they should get.

 

[Finman]

.
I saw your recommendation: Take a big, healthy hive. Do not treat it. Look how varroa destroyes it.

You know, mite kills big hives even better than nucs.

 

[For want of a better word]

Hi

Am due to place a bait hive in garden of a friends holiday home, he has a colony in the eaves of his house right by the sea.

I saw them last season and the colony was huge, masses of bees constantly coming and going laden down with pollen

Confirmed this AM they are still there this spring piling in and out.

Obviously through swarming and supersedure , the queen has been renewed many times... BUT... they have prevailed despite Varoa, for now, three seasons, and definitely have survived 2 winters.

Surely potential here for a strain that maybe exhibits a higher resistance level to the scourge of Varroa.

I wonder if this is more tolerance than resistance.
My own scientific training has lead me to try to think holistically instead of the "conventional" reductionist methodology of those trained in the last century.

I know of a number of feral sites that appear to have had bees in them constantly for at least the four years that I have been monitoring them.
I have a cast swarm from one that has now survived for two winters without any treatment,,, and on inspection last week were very black glossy and healthy looking... ( AMM from wing morphometry and brood pattern) there were a few varroa,....... very few on the inspection board after 24 hours.

Perhaps they have a level of tollerance.

I do treat my other colonies as a matter of course.... nothing harsh, just Thymol and vaporised OA.

I hope you do well with your feral bees Brian O.... think holistically!


Yeghes da

 

[Thymallus]

I have a cast swarm from one that has now survived for two winters without any treatment,,, and on inspection last week were very black glossy and healthy looking... ( AMM from wing morphometry and brood pattern) there were a few varroa,....... very few on the inspection board after 24 hours.

Is that Amm as in pure Amm or Hybrid Amm? wing morphometery will only tell you it is not a Carniolan etc, it csn't tell you how close to a pure Amm it is. But if you are convinced they are pure Amm's you should send some to Kate Thompson for analysis. IIRC the highest % remaining AMM contribution to a bees genome in Cornwall was aroud 70%, i.e hybrids.
So if you have the missing link and want to be famous....
Also drop counts are not a very reliable nor accurate way off assessing Varroa levels. I would have thought with your scientific training you would have known that.