20kg of stores for winter

[user 6228]

Is there any danger in over feeding?

As a rough guide I would have thought 20kg is reasonable, everybody reading BBKA news (ie a member of the BBKA) should understand that little is set in stone when it comes to keeping bees. They were very clear on the dangers of starvation in spring, and have mention the art of hefting numerous times.

20Kg plus or minus 12 Kg. giving a total hive weight of 28Kg to 44kg(estimated 5kg bees, 15kg hive)

We are supposed to do this on feel remembered over 3 months?

Are there hive hefting instruments out there?

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

Are there hive hefting instruments out there?

Spring scales are popular

 

[MandF]

20Kg plus or minus 12 Kg. giving a total hive weight of 28Kg to 44kg(estimated 5kg bees, 15kg hive)

We are supposed to do this on feel remembered over 3 months?

Are there hive hefting instruments out there?

I think the idea is you can recognise if the hive is light.. and if so you need to feed.

Im trying it on my hives at the moment, but more to see if they are getting lighter or not, out of interest as autumn is meant to be here - so in theory stores being used up, but I live in SW London and there is meant to be decent forage most of the year.

Over the last couple of weeks the hives havent got any lighter, and possibly slightly heavier. I am going away for just over a week next week, so I think I will feed them when I put in the second apiguard trays, just in case.

 

[dpearce4]

20Kg plus or minus 12 Kg. giving a total hive weight of 28Kg to 44kg(estimated 5kg bees, 15kg hive)

We are supposed to do this on feel remembered over 3 months?

Are there hive hefting instruments out there?

Can i thank you for this as i had heard the hefting and didnt know what to add into the weight for the bees and hive and you have done me a great service it gives me a rough idea of what weight i should be looking for, give or take the odd KG as mine is a commercial hive and maybe a bit heavier.

 

[dpearce4]

Spring scales are popular

got some nice suitcase spring scales from wilkinsons go up to 32kg and they have a good webbing strap to connect to the hive strap.

think they were £5

 

[alanf]

20Kg plus or minus 12 Kg. giving a total hive weight of 28Kg to 44kg(estimated 5kg bees, 15kg hive)

We are supposed to do this on feel remembered over 3 months?

Are there hive hefting instruments out there?

I was thinking of the practicalities of recording something more detailed than a general feeling of heavy or light. If you do want a number there is really no alternative to weighing the hive. If we could do something simple it could also be a useful technique for assessing nectar flow rate all through the year without opening hives. Having had relatives around farming for years, there's a lot more weighing and measuring these days than there used to be. Why should bees be any different?

Short of mounting a hive on semi permanent strain gauges, you're either placing it on scales or hanging a complete hive at arms length from a single hook. Both more than most could manage and not really minimal disturbance for the bees. However, the force to lift each side a few mm might be a useful approximation if you could do it consistently. I have not seen small pocket-able digital scales that you could slip under a side that cope with more than 1Kg or so. In the 20-40Kg range there are scales sold for fishing or luggage (old style springs, newer digital).

Might be worth a try to plot a hive or two over winter. Even if you don't weigh all the hives each time, you have data that you can compare spot checks against for your hive type.

 

[user 6228]

I Short of mounting a hive on semi permanent strain gauges, ... minimal disturbance for the bees.
... .

you can buy a die spring( for about £1. make this one leg of a very low (25 - 75mm) tripod under the hive And by measuring the height of the die spring you have the weight.

Die springs (compression springs) can bought from cromwells in various strengths sizes

If you want to be fancy mount a shiny bit of metal at the fixed legs and with a pocket laser pointer you can use it as on optical lever to double the accurracy.

 

[Cazza]

Are there hive hefting instruments out there?

Yes, generally known as "the hand", comes handily attached to " the arm." Portable and easy to use.

Honestly it's not rocket science.
Cazza

 

[oliver90owner]

the force to lift each side a few mm might be a useful approximation

Gadzooks! An estimation? That is the weight of the hive! Technically zero mm lift (but practically, it has to be a positive displacement) and the result will be subject to two error readings instead of one, of course, but that is of little consequence.

Have to be careful here, 50 000 bees is a lot of bees going into winter; a Th*rne roof could well weigh in excess of 4.5kg, ply boxes, the frames and wax; and possibly with a shallow over, may have insulation, as well. A solid floor weighs quite a good deal, too.

Far too many variables to go guessing the value for any particular situation, apart from a very standard BS national.

Kiss principle - a luggage 'scale' from epay for about a fiver or so. Cheap, cheerful and easily transferrable from one hive to the next.

Even cheaper, simply hand heft but don't leave it to anyone who thinks honey SG is 0.75! Or makes sugar syrup by carefully weighing out in 2.20kg lots!
As for quoting 20kg, plus or minus 12kg, someone obviously needs to qualify what exactly they are discussing.

RAB

 

[Rosti]

NO! we can make this even more complicated it's vital to dial in the hive fabric density factor, cedar v pine density v 12mm ply v 18mm etc when hefting

... the problem is that if you leave it too late the bees can't get the syrup sorted in time. hence why some would just advocate slapping blocks of fondant on each hive in autumn - bees can either move as they see fit or leave as a store for later use.

Good point, on two levels. Not providing back-up fondant last year cost me 2 hives that moved away from their stores during a warm Jan, recontracted away from stores in a cold Feb and starved. A good central source of stores like fondant could have stopped that (even in a well stocked hive). Unused fondant can always be turned into stimulant syrup come spring.

 

[Skylark]

So for overwintering a nuc I take you would need roughly half so approx 10kg stores.

By the way some confusion on here as to when Autumn starts, traditionally autumn starts on the equinox around 21st Sept not the 1st Sept.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Depends on the weather.Autumn starts here when the rooks return to their roosts,the rosebay and bramble finish the air is misty and the ground is heavy with dew every morning.........that's if it's not raining; all three weeks before the Ivy comes in.

 

[huntsman666]

Climatological autumn starts on Sept. 1st.

Astrological autumn starts on the autumnal equinox 22-23 Sept.

Ecological autumn is when the leaves change colour and fall.

 

[Winker]

Climatological autumn starts on Sept. 1st.

Astrological autumn starts on the autumnal equinox 22-23 Sept.

Ecological autumn is when the leaves change colour and fall.

Logic at its best

 

[For want of a better word]

NO! we can make this even more complicated it's vital to dial in the hive fabric density factor, cedar v pine density v 12mm ply v 18mm etc when hefting .................


and of course depends upon your altitude, longditude and lattitude and if the moon is full waxing or waneing!
Nor to forget if you are over a leyline !!

 

[newportbuzz]

why not hang your hives for the winter?
some people strap the hives anyway most put a brick of some other hold it down devise
so strap the hive hang it from a tree or some similar hold it up devise and attach your cheap and cheerfull £5 luggage scales
the benefits are now the mice cant even find the front door let alone get through it. the scales will always tell you what is going on at a glance. the hive is not sat in a puddle or some similar unsuitable substrate and come spring all you have to do is lower your hive till next winter.

 

[user 6228]

Yes, generally known as "the hand", comes handily attached to " the arm." Portable and easy to use.

Honestly it's not rocket science.
Cazza

"by hand" estimates of and repeatabliliy applying of force are typically abysmal, as witnessed by myself in the number of bits that come loose and are sheared off club motor racing instead of employing a simple device called a torque wrench.

 

[Cazza]

"by hand" estimates of and repeatabliliy applying of force are typically abysmal, as witnessed by myself in the number of bits that come loose and are sheared off club motor racing instead of employing a simple device called a torque wrench.

Depends how many years of "by hand" hefting you have experienced. The longer you've practiced, the better you get. I'm not a brilliant beek but I can overwinter bees without starving them and have them ready and raring to go for early OSR so hefting is all I need.
Cazza

 

[user 6228]

the force to lift each side a few mm might be a useful approximation

...
As for quoting 20kg, plus or minus 12kg, someone obviously needs to qualify what exactly they are discussing.

RAB

true - very difficult to decipher what each source exactly means by "weight consumed over winter" unless the method is declared. The scientific research i have read indicates that for a climate such as Norway or Poland. consumption is between 8 and 12kg and demonstrate variation in consumption with insulation and bee breed.

Norway : 8.5 to 11kg (science paper) Villumstad, E. (1974). Importance of hive insulation for wintering, development and honey yield in Norway. Apiacta 9, 116-118

canada : 45-63kg (vendor web site beeworks.com)

poland : 8-12kg (science paper) WINTER-HARDINESS OF BUCKFAST BEES UNDER SPECIFIC WEATHER CONDITIONS OF AREAS WITH ALTERNATING INFLUENCES OF MARITIME AND CONTINENTAL CLIMATE
Olszewski Journal of Apicultural Science

BKA : 20Kg

 

[Finman]

.
What means winter in those reports? Has it spring and autumn included?
How many months is winter?

Polad have quite harsh winter. In Norway it is raining water most of the time.
Sea is warm all the year around.

Why don't you know normal consumption in Britain?