200 Jobs gone to India

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REDWOOD

Queen Bee
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Just been told that 200 Jobs to go in an Alberto Culver factory in Swansea and are setting up in India. What is likely to be left in this country for the future. The retail price will be the same but profit margins will increase for the share holders so who has gained and who has lost and where is our government that we elected to stop this happening or does the government support the shareholders or the working class
 
Unfortunately this has been going on for far to many years now.

We turned our backs on manufacturing and the skills required to run it 30 years ago with an obsession with university degrees.

Both are equally important but we have a huge imbalance with the consequence lots of qualified people with the ability to move money around the world!!!!! and not enough engineers and skilled trades required to make us competitive.
 
Tom,

30 years ago? It started long before that. More like 1960s (and possibly earlier) when car production workers were so well paid that they almost ran the companies (closed shop trade unionists were a good example). Profits, without investment in improved production methods, allowed the competition to show them the way to do it, and that combination led to the demise of heavy (and precision) manufacturing in the UK.

The UK pioneered robotics and sold them to the Japanese who refined them and took over a lot of the manufacturing, previously carried out in the UK. Imports, cheaper than home pruduction, was the order of the day, and so it has snow-balled. That is my take on it.

RAB
 
Yes I know rab but for me 30 years ago is when we accelerated the demise.
 
Unfortunately this has been going on for far to many years now.

We turned our backs on manufacturing and the skills required to run it 30 years ago with an obsession with university degrees.

Both are equally important but we have a huge imbalance with the consequence lots of qualified people with the ability to move money around the world!!!!! and not enough engineers and skilled trades required to make us competitive.

I thought much of the James Dyson Lecture was about right.

We have lost our manufacturing industry and so have nothing to sell,so we keep buying in from other countrys until the money runs out.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/dyson_10_12_04.pdf
 
Worrying times ahead for our children, I don't think a few bits of land of outstanding natural beauty is going to keep this country going. What are economic professors teaching in universities these days, how to fill your pockets or how to fill a country, what's happened to build for the future. Unless something radical and forward thinking happens very shortly then are future is looking very bad, what has happen to the BUY BRITISH slogan
 
Isn't the UK still in the top ten of global manufacturing nations?
 
At a factory local to me the workers were given their redundancy as the manufacturing was being relocated to Poland. What rely annoyed the workers was the fact they were asked to go over and train the polish workers to do their jobs.
 
Although the Dyson article is interesting, it overlooks some very important things:

1. There is an immense difference between design engineering and production engineering.
2. The labour content of manufacturing is the variable that predicates that far eastern manufacture is cheaper.
3. The cost of capital is largely the same globally.
4. In many products, the cost of manufacturing in the far east or offshore is not properly accounted for, due to the ways accountants distort costs.
5. The length of the supply chain impacts the ability of a company to be competitive.

I have put products into manufacture in medium volume (100k+ pieces per year) with lower costs than could be achieved from the far east, much to my colleagues disbelief.

That was achieved by changing the design until it could be manufactured with minimum labour. (Driven by production, not design engineering) It resulted in a very short supply chain and maximum control over quality and materials.

You only have to send a trouble shooter out to an offshore plant a few times, and the cost advantage will be lost (but it won't show up in the cost of product - due to accountants). The worst case scenario, and I have seen it, is to open a container and find that the goods inside are faulty, and to discover that there are another three containers en-route with the same set of faults. The cost of product had gone up...not down.

Quite a few companies are finding the chimera of offshore manufacturing less attractive than they thought, and are shifting back to the UK.

The real drivers , in my opinion, causing companies to go offshore are poor management, poor accounting practices, and inefficient product design.

I'll put my soapbox away now...
 
You only have to send a trouble shooter out to an offshore plant a few times, and the cost advantage will be lost (but it won't show up in the cost of product - due to accountants). The worst case scenario, and I have seen it, is to open a container and find that the goods inside are faulty, and to discover that there are another three containers en-route with the same set of faults. The cost of product had gone up...not down.
Sounds about right. Not been involved in off-shoring manufacturing but I have been involved in off-shoring 'back office' services to contractors. <borrows soapbox>

The initial proposal all too often simply takes the cost per clerical head here and compares it with the cost per clerical head over there. What it doesn't include is the management left here who monitor the contract/performance and the management there who correspond with them. Layers of management which either didn't exist before or needed a lot fewer staff. Because the project cannot possibly come in way over budget, the extra costs are absorbed as general management overhead.

What out sourcing also completely misses is that the opportunity to reduce the costs in future is significantly reduced. The process is often over defined, such that the actual labour needed increases. Any changes to process have to be negotiated at great length and expense. The contractor has no incentive to reduce that because they are paid for what they do, they will never suggest that they can reduce their input. There is a tendency to cast the process in stone and the senior management tendency is to work around the deficiencies rather than rethink and refine the entire process every few years.

It gets even worse when you have contractors talking to contractors; the number of relationships to manage increases exponentially and in practice everything is referred back, massively inflating the cost in time and flexibility. The contractual labyrinth becomes a nightmare to manage and no-one even thinks of improving it because the whole edifice could collapse if anything changed.

Meanwhile after working the processes and parcelling them out to various contractors for a few years your own 'experts' in the process itself have gone, all you have left is the monitors. They become the only people you can ask, the management both here and over there who have usually found a well paid niche and have a vested interest in leaving everything exactly as it is. If glaring problems do emerge, generalist management tend to agree to any (costly) enhancements the contractors say are needed because they don't have the detailed knowledge of the process that was established or the requirements that existed before off-shoring.

There is a real problem still on the horizon. Much of the private sector have been working through the consequences for a while. They have discovered that the cost savings and service levels do not magically improve, rather it builds in the inefficiencies and makes change far more difficult. The government meanwhile, being a few steps behind, have discovered out sourcing as if it's a new idea. All the consultants who previously advocated it as such a brilliant idea have moved into lobbying for it in the public sector in areas such as health and education. The real crime is that with consultancies and directorships in prospect, there's very little incentive for those who make the decisions in the public sector to do otherwise.</soapbox>
 
What is wrong with profit?

The biggest issue we have in the UK is VAT level.

We registered for it then found that we were making no money at all as the profits that we were making went out in VAT. Not funny I assure you when working up to 18 hours a day.

The number cheating on vat is horrendous.

I would suggest that the start level goes up to say £120k which would take lots of tradesmen out of it and stimulate more work for them as their costs obviously drop by 20%.

On it goes...

PH
 
I thought much of the James Dyson Lecture was about right.

We have lost our manufacturing industry and so have nothing to sell,so we keep buying in from other countrys until the money runs out.

But wasn't he the one who closed his factory in the UK and went abroad to increase his profits?
Yeah, I thought that too. Didn't he move production to the Far East?
 
At a factory local to me the workers were given their redundancy as the manufacturing was being relocated to Poland. What rely annoyed the workers was the fact they were asked to go over and train the polish workers to do their jobs.


I believe a major tea company done exactly the same about a year ago. I have friends that live in Dijon and the company they worked for moved the whole lot to Poland. Strangely though I bought a jar of Dijon mustard from the supermarket the other day and it still says 'Produce of France' on the jar. Yes, 'Produce' only, grown, picked, but not mixed, packed and distributed!! No doubt the Royal Mail will bee in the hands of Deutsche Post soon!
 
and i also thought dyson hoovers were crap anyway

Interesting really - His products are a classic example of design over substance, yet in his interview he seems to be saying the opposite...

He did shift manufacturing offshore, and to my mind he lost any credibility to speak for UK manufacturing at that point.
 

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