How to swap from 1 1/2 to double brood?

jeff33 · Apr 19, 2016

With those highly prolific bees of mine I think I will pass from brood and 1/2 to double to make any manipulation more straight forward and give more space to the queen.
I am thinking of adding a new deep with foundation and drawn comb below my original one and add a QE above the 2nd deep to stop the queen laying in the super. Once all the brood will have emerged from the super it will be used for honey. Any trapped drones will need to wait for an inspection to get out!

Is this the best/most straight forward way of doing it?

Cussword · Apr 19, 2016

I think that would be as straightforward as it could possibly be. As is constantly quoted, "keep it simple". I'll omit the second S, as I wouldn't dream of suggesting that anyone is stupid.

Would you use the honey collected from the super for human consumption, or would you give it back to the Bees?

.

jeff33 · Apr 19, 2016

Cussword said:
Would you use the honey collected from the super for human consumption, or would you give it back to the Bees?

I will leave this one to them as there might also be some pollen stored.

Fraise · Apr 19, 2016

I would put the 'super' on the bottom with a new brood box above and then the existing brood on top of that. The bees will slowly move up and vacate the super which you will be able to remove.

Finman · Apr 19, 2016

jeff33 said:
. Any trapped drones will need to wait for an inspection to get out!

?

Make an entrance hole in the excluder frame.
.

jenkinsbrynmair · Apr 19, 2016

Fraise said:
I would put the 'super' on the bottom with a new brood box above and then the existing brood on top of that. The bees will slowly move up and vacate the super which you will be able to remove.

Thus splitting the brood - not very wise especially at this time of year.
As has been said - new BB then existing BB (ensuring the queen is in that area) QX then current shallow with brood in. You can make an entrance above the QX by making a narrow 10mm eke with an inch or so missing as a temporary top entrance. Once the brood has emerged in the super they will fill it with honey and there's nothing wrong in extracting that for human consumption.

Fraise · Apr 19, 2016

Its not clear if the shallow is currently above or below the existing brood box.
If the shallow is at the bottom and the brood does not fill the frames then you will be splitting the brood whatever you do.

jenkinsbrynmair · Apr 19, 2016

Fraise said:
Its not clear if the shallow is currently above or below the existing brood box.
If the shallow is at the bottom and the brood does not fill the frames then you will be splitting the brood whatever you do.

jeff33 said:
I overwintered it on 2 supers to build it up as I wanted to raise queens from that one (not anymore)....The 3 boxes are full of bees and I have brood on the deep and 1 super (hardly any on the 2nd super).Most QC were as expected on the middle super (not anymore).

so looks like the shallow in question is full as well - but regardless there's a world of difference between a few inches on the shallow frame with no brood and a gaping void the equivalent of a whole deep frame.

jeff33 · Apr 19, 2016

Yes the shallow is full as well. I put a QE between the 2 shallows 3 weeks ago to restrict the brood to the deep and 1st shallow. This is why I want to put the new deep down the bottom not to split the brood.

jeff33 · Apr 19, 2016

Fraise said:
Its not clear if the shallow is currently above or below the existing brood box.
If the shallow is at the bottom and the brood does not fill the frames then you will be splitting the brood whatever you do.

Its above the deep Fraise.

Finman · Apr 19, 2016

jeff33 said:
I am thinking of adding a new deep with foundation and drawn comb below my original one and add a QE above the 2nd deep to stop the queen laying in the super. Once all the brood will have emerged from the super it will be used for honey. Any trapped drones will need to wait for an inspection to get out!

Is this the best/most straight forward way of doing it?

That is practical way to do it. You do not even need excluder. Let the colony grow that way. When it starts to get honey, it fills frames from up to down and honey pushes brood area downwards.

But before that propably you must add couple of supers on the hive.
Hive needs more space even brood emerge.

One problem is, that if the super has been as winter box, it has old honey and winter food in frames.
First you should clean the old stuff from combs. That is why swap the brood anf half. When half is full of brood, swap again brood and half. It is summer then and bees fill the upper most combs.

Be flexible with your goals, and let the hive build up first with its own instincts. Do not make strict orders to bees.

.
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Finman · Apr 19, 2016

jeff33 said:
Yes the shallow is full as well. I put a QE between the 2 shallows 3 weeks ago to restrict the brood to the deep and 1st shallow. This is why I want to put the new deep down the bottom not to split the brood.

3 weeks ago. So worker brood have all emerged now.
.
You should not play with excluder that early because you spring has been cold in Britain.

Poly Hive · Apr 19, 2016

Personally I would put the super underneath the current brood box with an excluder ensuring HM is in the brood box. Then add the new BB. When she is up and laying let them be for the 24 days then remove the super which should be empty and think in the meantime do they need supering if a flow appears.

Queens always want to go up. Use it to advantage.

PH

Cussword · Apr 19, 2016

jenkinsbrynmair said:
As has been said - new BB then existing BB (ensuring the queen is in that area) QX then current shallow with brood in. You can make an entrance above the QX by making a narrow 10mm eke with an inch or so missing as a temporary top entrance.

It's the less hassle, & probably more efficient... Although it's strange to see you and Finman agreeing (in principle)

Once the brood has emerged in the super they will fill it with honey and there's nothing wrong in extracting that for human consumption.

JBM, I've asked you that question before :sorry:

jenkinsbrynmair · Apr 19, 2016

Cussword said:
Although it's strange to see you and Finman agreeing (in principle)

I must admit I had to step outside for a breath of fresh air shortly after

Finman · Apr 19, 2016

jenkinsbrynmair said:
I must admit I had to step outside for a breath of fresh air shortly after

Take it easy. We have 2000 km distance between us.

I have not farted in your home. It has been somebody else.

Finman · Apr 19, 2016

.
I arrange every spring frames and boxes, that bees eate old winter food away from hive, but arrangements are not so difficult, what is described in this forum chain.

And if you put super lowest, bees fill it with pollen.

Just now I have mediums and full langstroths and double mediums. I do not mind where the queen lays. Main thing is that it lays as much as possible. Later in June I start to arrange brood boxes and supers.

Too much figure skating in normal beekeeping.

jeff33 · Apr 19, 2016

Finman said:
One problem is, that if the super has been as winter box, it has old honey and winter food in frames.
First you should clean the old stuff from combs. That is why swap the brood anf half. When half is full of brood, swap again brood and half. It is summer then and bees fill the upper most combs.

My bees are crossed with piranhas.....they ate everything that was left to them over the winter!

Finman · Apr 19, 2016

jeff33 said:
My bees are crossed with piranhas.....they ate everything that was left to them over the winter!

Ok. Now just wait that the colony expands. Do not use now that excluder. When I look UK forecasts, you are not geting flow for a while.

How to swap from 1 1/2 to double brood?

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