yet another drone laying queen

[markrogers]

i,m almsot certain I have a DLQ. there are masses of capped drone cells in the centre of frames and i can't find any normal capped cells.

i treated the hive with oxcalic acid, on the advice of the bee inspector, 3 weeks ago as there was evidence of varroa. the hive had swarmed (which i had caught and hived) and the the virgin queen hadn't started to lay so he suggested waiting 2 weeks from the date of his visit and then treat which i did.

today i checked the hive again and noticed that many of the drone cells had failed to hatch. there was also evidence of chalk brood or what i think is cb. this was also evident when the inspector called and noted by him and shown to me.

what is worrying me is what has killed the drones. surely i can't be verroa as the acid should have sorted that. i didn't see any wing damaged bees but as a newby i might have missed them.

i was planning to add a frame from my swarm hive to boost numbers but now i am not sure if that is a good idea.

i have ordered a mated queen which is due to be delivered on thursday. i have found the barren queen and marked her.

should i press ahead with my plans? is this a good idea in the circumstances?

thanks for any advice you can give me.

mark

 

[drstitson]

Think about/clarify the timeline. when was the swarm? when did virgin hatch?

You say virgin queen hadn't started to lay 3 weeks ago.

you treated with oxalic 1 week ago.

What was the state of the hive re brood at the inspection 3 weeks ago? was it drone brood then? if not when did you first spot it?

if you are concerned about drone brood not having emerged (you only know it has died and won't emerge AFTER the expected ETA) then it must by definition be >4 weeks old and hence down to the old queen. Unless you've seen new sealed drone brood appear then get cleaned out before it has had time to emerge, of course.

The worry will only be if the new queen starts/started laying at some point in last 3 weeks or following weeks and newly capped brood is drone only. So key date is 9-10 days post appearance of first eggs.

Not sure what others think about treating with oxalic during the mating window? if we are not supposed to use it more than once per season due to deletirious effects on queens is this worse if she isn't even mature/properly mated?

 

[oliver90owner]

You have a marked DLQ and a new mated queen arriving shortly? No contest really. Get 'er changed!

RAB

 

[enrico]

(No contest)
E

 

[markrogers]

sorry the time line wasn't clear.

inspector calls 22nd june. old hive and nuke had virgin queens not laying, swarm hive had queen, presumed old, not laying either as all thaction had hapend a few weeks before.

as there was no eggs/larvae and oly capped brood the inspector sugested waiting for 2 weeks when all capped brood would have hatched and then treating with oxalic acid. this i did on 5th july.

i have not treated with OA before and the inspector said it was a unique opportunity as by chance there would be no caped brood to harbour varroa.

am i correct in thinking that you all think the large number of dead in cell drones are of no importance? they must have been laid after treatment on 5th july.

mark

 

[enrico]

I am thinking that you need to get laying queens asap. You have nothing to lose by adding new queen to hive and making sure that virgins are mated by now. If not when new queen starts laying then put brood across to nucs pronto. I have no idea what would have killed drones. Are you sure they were dead? Whatever it was you need to act now to get queen in place and laying
E

 

[greatbritishhoney]

Unless I'm reading it wrong, the hive in question is the one that LOST the swarm, rather than the hive that you put the caught swarm into?

If so, then I would hazard a guess that you just have a virgin queen that hasn't yet mated and the drone brood (which was probably there before the swarm) died due to the use of oxalic.

The key thing is whether you currently have any eggs / larvae. If not, then you have NO queen (or a virgin) rather than a DLQ.

Apologies if I am completely mis-reading the situation.

 

[drstitson]

not sure about trickled oxalic BUT:

quote from michael palmer on beesource:

"Will oxalic vapor kill brood?

No, it doesn't kill brood. I used OA vapor for 3 years. In '06, I vaporized three times, 7 days apart...trying to get some control while colonies still had brood. Before first treatment, I marked frames with brood...both sealed and unsealed. After the 3rd treatment, I re-examined the brood frames. I could find no damage. The unsealed brood was sealed, or emerging, the sealed had hatched, and queen was laying in that comb space."

 

[dclewis]

Whats the stores situation. Your queens not going to lay if theres no food coming in and nothing in the cupboard!

 

[markrogers]

thanks for your replies.

enrico- mated queen should be here on thursday

gbh- it is the hive that lost the swarm, there is a queen and i have marked her(the first one i have found unaided in a hive). there are larvae and only drone brood.

dr s- thank you for that v useful info. i am relieved to know that.

dcl- they have a mass of stores so they can't go hungry.

i am planning to transfer worker brood from the swarm hive to tide them over as i think the drone brood died form lack of nurse bees and not disease or poisoning as i first feared.

all i need to do now is persuade the hive to accept the mated queen. the books tell me that early august is a risky time but needs must etc.

mark

 

[sugarbush]

i have not treated with OA before and the inspector said it was a unique opportunity as by chance there would be no caped brood to harbour varroa.


mark

Take this opportunity to uncap the drone brood and see what condition your varroa population in the hive is.