Yes, another beginner asking for QC advice

[Joe_01]

Hi guys,

Seen a lot of these sort of posts so sorry for another one.

Over the last week or so my bee population has increased a huge amount so much so that they are on the OMF and by the entrance even at night. I opened them up today to see the amount of stores they have has increased a large amount which is great to see.

So here's the problem.

I found three queen cells. Now the week before I believe my bees threw off a small swarm as I found a clump of them on the leg of my hive which eventually disappeared (but could have been bearding or bees hanging out). I don't want them swarming at all; this is a first year colony and I want them to be strong through the winter. So I immediately destroyed all the queen cells. I didn't stop to think that the three cells were supersedure cells rather than the normal swarm cells.

You could say "well they are out of space" but they still haven't drawn out 4 of the frames at the back of the hive at all. You could also say "they wanted to replace the queen" but the queen I got at the moment is laying, not damaged and is really productive.

So what do I do now? Here are some ideas I had.

1) Give them 1:1 sugar syrup and hopefully they will draw out the comb
2) Give them 1:1 sugar syrup and a super so they draw out the comb and have more space
3) Leave them how they are. They will draw out the comb eventually and if they swarm, they swarm
4) Leave them how they they are but continue to remove all the queen cells if more appear
5) Leave one queen cell next time to hopefully supersede my current queen

Any advice on what to do would be great!

Joe

 

[Erichalfbee]

The bees won’t have thrown out a small swarm.
That’s not what you saw.
Presuming you simply have stores on the first frame take one frame from the back and put it between that and the next one
You’re in Hampshire? There must be a Flow on surely?
I also presume you found your queen before you took those cells down. Sounds like they might have been swarm cells.

 

[coffindodger]

Don't feed. The four undrawn frames may be misleading, the full ones are the key. You can go for an artificial swarm (see lots of earlier posts or read-up) or why not go to a split? Buy another queen and you have two colonies for the winter. Time for them to build up. As an emergency measure I'd be tempted to give another brood box or super for space and remove queen cells.

 

[enrico]

Let's take this bit by bit.
First of all...... What state were the queen cells.were they just small cups,large cells with larvae or fully capped?
Secondly, why do you think you saw a small swarm? Were they in a huddle in a nearby bush or tree or were there just alot of bees flying around?
Thirdly, have you seen the queen since you believe you saw that swarm?
Answer these questions for me and I will give you some advice
E

 

[maddydog]

Don't take this the wrong way but you might benefit from a mentor or at least someone experienced who can have a look in your hive and see the state of play.
Personally I'm not keen on any of your ideas and would be thinking along the lines that they're attempting to swarm. Don't fall into the trap of thinking that because they're in their first season that they won't swarm. I picked up a swarm in May that rapidly expanded so I took a nuc off them, yesterday they swarmed again after filling a 14*12 nuc wall to wall with brood.

 

[Murox]

How many supers have you got on?

 

[Joe_01]

Let's take this bit by bit.
First of all...... What state were the queen cells.were they just small cups,large cells with larvae or fully capped?
Secondly, why do you think you saw a small swarm? Were they in a huddle in a nearby bush or tree or were there just alot of bees flying around?
Thirdly, have you seen the queen since you believe you saw that swarm?
Answer these questions for me and I will give you some advice
E

The queen cells were fully capped.

A large clump of bees was on the hive stand leg, then half of them moved onto a nearby tree. 10 minutes later the clump on the tree disappeared and the remaining clump on the stand slowly went back into the hive.

Yes, the original queen is still in the hive now.

Don't take this the wrong way but you might benefit from a mentor or at least someone experienced who can have a look in your hive and see the state of play.
Personally I'm not keen on any of your ideas and would be thinking along the lines that they're attempting to swarm. Don't fall into the trap of thinking that because they're in their first season that they won't swarm. I picked up a swarm in May that rapidly expanded so I took a nuc off them, yesterday they swarmed again after filling a 14*12 nuc wall to wall with brood.

No offence taken! I would love a mentor but unfortunately its kind of hard to find one around here that would be willing to give up their time for me. I'll see if I can convince someone. What do you suggest I do then? I unfortunately do not have the time or space for multiple beehives at the moment so splitting them like you have wouldn't work too well.

How many supers have you got on?

None.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

A clipped queen will attempt to swarm - the bees will go to a tree but as she isn't there with them, the bees will return. A clipped queen will sometimes go back in the hive after a failed swarm attempt. Sometimes she will go underneath with the swarm, sometimes she will be on the grass somewhere with a few bees around her, sometimes she is lost.

With 3 queencells destroyed, you will probably find that the colony will produce more. That's too swarmy for my liking!

What's the history/provenance of the queen?

 

[Joe_01]

A clipped queen will attempt to swarm - the bees will go to a tree but as she isn't there with them, the bees will return. A clipped queen will sometimes go back in the hive after a failed swarm attempt. Sometimes she will go underneath with the swarm, sometimes she will be on the grass somewhere with a few bees around her, sometimes she is lost.

With 3 queencells destroyed, you will probably find that the colony will produce more. That's too swarmy for my liking!

What's the history/provenance of the queen?

I got the queen and the bees from a random swarm so it is hard to know any of her history however she did start laying as soon as the comb was drawn out which leads me to believe she is the previous colonies original queen rather than a swarm queen. This is just a guess though.

 

[enrico]

Ok so she is not going to be clipped
It is worth trying a normal pagden artificial swarm. It will mean you have two hives for a while but you can recombine later. If nothing else it will be good training.
You need to do something as all your bees will do is try and swarm by making more and more queen cells
Inspect five days after your last inspection date and if you see any part made queen cells then follow the instructions below.
Set up a new floor, a new brood box filled with new frames and foundation.
Take the two centre frames out. Go into your old hive and find the queen
Move the frame with the queen on into the space you made in the old hive. Add another frame with some brood and food on. Most importantly now put that new hive with the old queen in exactly the same place as the old hive was, facing in the same direction. Fill the spaces in the old hive with the two frames you took out of the new hive. And move that hive into a new place. It can be a few feet away from where it was with no problem.
The flying bees from this moved hive will now return to the new hive.
One last thing to do. Go through the old hive and remove all the queen cells except for one. Preferably one with white stuff in it but not capped.
That is the artificial swarm. Your old queen is joined by all the fliers and thinks she has swarmed as she now has loads of new frames and the old hive now has no queen or fliers and will bring on the queen cell.
Later in the year, if you only want one hive, kill the old queen and recombine the two hives. Ask before you do it!
You HAVE to quell the swarming instinct it is no good just knocking down the queen cells
E

 

[maddydog]

The queen cells were fully capped.

A large clump of bees was on the hive stand leg, then half of them moved onto a nearby tree. 10 minutes later the clump on the tree disappeared and the remaining clump on the stand slowly went back into the hive.

Yes, the original queen is still in the hive now.



No offence taken! I would love a mentor but unfortunately its kind of hard to find one around here that would be willing to give up their time for me. I'll see if I can convince someone. What do you suggest I do then? I unfortunately do not have the time or space for multiple beehives at the moment so splitting them like you have wouldn't work too well.



None.

Swarming is a pain but it's part and parcel of beekeeping unfortunately! As has been said you need to remove swarming fever from the colony. There are a number of ways to do this which will involve a bit of reading/watching on your behalf. As for equipment a nuc plus foundation or another brood box with a rudimentary floor (vertical split) will be enough so space shouldn't be too much of an issue.

Once swarming is over you can always reduce everything to one hive and you'll have the spare kit ready for next year.

Good luck

 

[eltalia]

[...]
... what do I do now? Here are some ideas I had.
1) Give them 1:1 sugar syrup and hopefully they will draw out the comb
2) Give them 1:1 sugar syrup and a super so they draw out the comb and have more space
3) Leave them how they are. They will draw out the comb eventually and if they swarm, they swarm
4) Leave them how they they are but continue to remove all the queen cells if more appear
5) Leave one queen cell next time to hopefully supersede my current queen

Any advice on what to do would be great!

Joe

None of those... and frankly all are nonsense, not likely of your making as
I am reasonably confident you are merely repeating what's been read.

What is needed here is frame manipilation to change their focus.
There exist a number of options but disregard any which suggest busting up
the central broodnest - g00gle methods.
As QCs are present and a swarm issue likely (now) I'd be going into the
yard first thing and fitting a QR(queen restrictor)... at least that takes the
urgency out of the equation. - retail example attached.

Bill

 

[enrico]

It seems to me that is your answer to everything. Do you have shares in the company?

 

[eltalia]

It seems to me that is your answer to everything. Do you have shares in the company?

Heh... given the stonewalling happening in
*this* forum such would be a very poor
investment indeed, hey.

/chuckles/

Bill