winter preparation

Beekeeping & Apiculture Forum

Help Support Beekeeping & Apiculture Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

markfitz

New Bee
Joined
Dec 14, 2011
Messages
52
Reaction score
0
Location
ireland
Hive Type
National
Number of Hives
3
hi everyone, now that everyone is taking the excess honey off and starting to treat there hives what do the seasoned beekeepers on this site do next. im wondering should I close the open mesh floor and insulate the rest of the hive or do I keep the floor open and leave the hive as it is, or do I just insulate the roof and maybe leave a few blocks beside the hive to stop the draft from heading up through the floor, what do people think
 
OMF open. Entrances mouse guarded, insulation 2" Kingspan on top of crown board. Allows ventilation, minimising condensation. There will be talk of matchsticks soon methinks...
 
Hi Mark, I'm no expert but this is what I did last year going into my first winter with bees, and I worked for me. I treated them for varroa, then I started to feed them, I aimed to have all feeding over before Oct 1st. The reason for this, is that, if done later, the bees have insufficient time to evaporate the excess water, causing digestive problems to the bees in the depth of winter. I fed late evening. Remember to put a reduced entrance in & leave, as will prevent robbing. I fed every evening until they stopped taking it. The beginning Oct, heft the hive to get an idea of the weight so you can monitor it by doing the same during the winter. I then put on mouse guard. Late Oct I put a match stick under each corner of the crown board, so air spreads all directions & out the thin gaps, both feed holes are covered. I put a carpet piece on top of crown board, I also leave the tray under the open mesh floor. Then last but not least, I make sure that I batten it down, with blocks on roof against winds blowing the hive over. That was it, and my bees over wintered fine with no losses. Everyone does things differently, so will be interesting to see what others do and say. There is a book I bought, called Bees at the bottom of the garden, I would have been lost without it my first year, and still often look up things in it. I would highly recommend it. Best of luck. Sharon
 
Yep, OMF open all year though I do have half inserts if the weather is really bad. Insulation remains on top all year except Polys ( Not p a y n e s nuc though, that has insulation on as I think roof is too thin.

I'm not a seasoned beekeeper but thought I'd contribute :)
 
You would do well to consider how bees prepare themselves for winter.

They do not leave through-draughts (all small gaps in the hive are securely propolised on the inside), they clear out decaying detritus from the bottom of the hive (c/f leaving detritus just below the OMF where the bees cannot access it). They collect adequate stores for those cold winter months and the last couple of brood cycles produce the over-wintering bees.

Bees can over-winter outside in a sheltered aspect, so open at the bottom is not so much of an impediment - as long as there are no air channels through and around the cluster(compare here a natural nest and a framed hive - where there are gaps between all combs at top and bottom!) Bees certainly benefit from a cosy, well insulated enclosure (need less stores to maintain a suitable cluster temperature and can start expanding in spring that much earlier).

Personally, I don't take honey until the end of the month usually. I then treat for varroa so the winter bees can be the healthiest possible. I assess the stores and the forage, along with the weather and how the season is progressing and make sure there is sufficient stores in the hive for the duration of the winter months. I distribute any spare stores there may be, after unites, often by feeding part frames from beneath the brood box (spread out widely, they are soon moved up by the bees.

Some hives might be mouse-guarded at the entrance, some may have a wire excluder of some description inserted below the brood box, some may need only the entrance depth reducing to a bee width and some need nothing changing.

I don't insulate my hives further as they have sufficient insulation all the year round. Any on a solid floor will have 2-3mm strips fitted between the floor and the brood as spacers after they have clustered (they will also be adjusted to slope towards the entrance to avoid pooling should water get blown inside the hive). NONE have any top ventilation. They are eventually left completely in peace until late Feb, when I heft them for stores and maybe encourage a few to start expanding the brood nest.

My winter losses for the last five years (up until last winter) were running at about 3-5% and some of those were predictable.

RAB
 
for winter we will be removing all the polystyrene supers and brood boxes that were needed for the rapid summer expansion and move every thing in to PIR boxes. I say for winter but it will start happening in August when we lose our 5th colony to overwinter just the 4.
 
I agree with and do almost same as RAB. Too much insulation not good as bees have had millions of years to sort it out. Ventilation essential. I don't give any insulation actually as my bees are alll local mongrels anyway, well used to this climate despite it changing one way and another in recent years. Lost none last winter, tho' did have one DLQ probably due to poor mating of Q previous year. Can't understand why newbies fuss so much.
 
Newbies fuss so much (me being one of them) because they want to do the best for their bees, and not having years of experience behind them, they ask the lovely people on here for advice.
 
...Too much insulation not good as bees have had millions of years to sort it out. Ventilation essential. I don't give any insulation actually as my bees are alll local mongrels anyway, well used to this climate despite it changing one way and another in recent years. Lost none last winter, tho' did have one DLQ probably due to poor mating of Q previous year. Can't understand why newbies fuss so much.


how much insulation is too much? compared to what?
How much ventilation?

Honey bees evolved to live in tree cavities, so normal insulation is
what you would get in a 45L 6" diameter cavity with 6" thick walls

I think there is less than 20 hives in the United Kingdom that come even close to the level of insulation that is "normal" for bees. (I've built or helped with building 11 of them)

As regards ventilation bees evolved to cope with a tree knot hole less than 20 sq cm2 not a great big piece of metal mesh.

Did you say in a previous post that giving bees insulation was "mollycoddling"... what do you call putting 4 to 5 times the heat stress on a group animals in captivity than the heat stress it would have in the wild?
 
Last edited:
thanks for the replys everyone think ill go with leaving the floor open and insulating the roof cheers
 
My experience of open floors and no bottom board under it is that those who overwintered like that in a TBH had a dead colony in spring...

I have roof insulation of c 70-100mm in most hives and wall insulation plus wall thickness of 80mm plus..

No problems overwintering vs others despite two consecutive winters with successive nights at -16 to -18C..

I cannot use matchsticks...
 
Can't understand why newbies fuss so much.

Newbies fuss so much (me being one of them) because they want to do the best for their bees, and not having years of experience behind them, they ask the lovely people on here for advice.

Well said, Lindylou!

Sorry, Afermo, but that response was demeaning and uncalled-for.

I "fuss" about getting it right, only being in my second season and looking after 8 hives. For me not to worry about the livestock for which I've assumed responsibility, would be irresponsible.

Thanks everyone for their generously shared wisdom.

Dusty
 
Oh, and thanks RAB for the lucid explanation of your normal procedures.

And, before you say it, I realise its the norm from which one might deviate, following a proper assessment.

Dusty
 
they ask the lovely people on here for advice.

And I'm sure that one will come along eventually :D

As for winter preparations - I shall be sewing myself up in my nice Welsh flannel winter all in one clout at the end of this month and it shall not be cast off until i see the first may blossom (or it drops off me - whichever one comes first) But this year I shall remember to leave the odd neccessary gap in strategic positions :D
 
My experience of open floors and no bottom board under it is that those who overwintered like that in a TBH had a dead colony in spring...

I have roof insulation of c 70-100mm in most hives and wall insulation plus wall thickness of 80mm plus..

No problems overwintering vs others despite two consecutive winters with successive nights at -16 to -18C..

I cannot use matchsticks...

impressive levels of insulation not worthynot worthy
However here are some thing you need to be aware of when you get to those levels (you may have this covered).
Air tight seals... the higher temperature differential gives a higher pressure differential so you need to me more careful with sealing.
Thermal bridging... the wooden structure can conduct heat into the unoccupied volumesof the hive. you nay need to insulate the inside of the un occupied volume for a distance of about 150 to 300mm
 
Feeding is the bit that befuddles me. I've now feeding into 12x14s.

How many frames of stores as a rule of thumb would be acceptable? Last year I slapped on some fondant throughout winter just in case. But I'd like to get out of that habit - I've just got no benchmark to know how many stores is enough.
 
Back
Top